Bobby Jones' short films

[T_MacWood]

Does anyone know at what golf course (or golf courses) Bobby Jones' short instructional films were made? The course looks very interesting.

[JohnV]

Tom, I believe that some if not all were filmed at Riviera.

[Scott_Burroughs]

Not all were at Riviera.  As far as I know, the only one filmed at Riviera was the lesson on the Spoon (he was hitting approach shots to the 9th).  Another one was filmed at Flintridge something or other in the hills east of Burbank and Glendale.

[LKoonce]

I thought that some were also filmed at Lakeside?

[Geoff_Shackelford]

Tom,

Many were filmed at Lakeside, some at Midwick in Pasadena (Billy Bell redo where you see the cool bunkering, I believe that's the one with the clubhouse above the fairway that many people think is either #9 at Riviera or #9 at Bel-Air). I also believe Bel-Air was used extensively and a few others that are tough to identify.

I have never come across any evidence that Riviera was the site for filming, though Jones did play there during his time in LA and I even got to hear a few stories about those rounds from Charlie Seaver who played with him (he told me how #8 played and also said both he and Jones drove #10...must have been incredible without kikuyu!).
Geoff

[TEPaul]

Tom MacWood:

If one of the courses was Lakeside, and it was, it shouldn't surprise you it looks very interesting. Max Behr built Lakeside!!

Some might be surprised to know but apparently Behr and his architectural philosophies were influential on Bob Jones and Alister MacKenzie!

[Jonathan Cummings]

Do you know that those Jones films of old may be responsible for why some of you are using Big Berthas today?  JC

[TEPaul]

No, but I do know those films were the end of Bob Jones's amateur status and consequently the end of Bob Jones's competitive career in golf!

[RDecker]

I know one thing, even with old film and golf equipment the ball seems to jump off of his clubhead.  I know the David Leadbetters of the world don't approve of a swing like Jones' but it sure was pretty to watch.  Question, has golf or will it ever again have as good an ambassador as Mr. Jones?

[RDecker]

From what I've seen on the films he did have a short, poppy stroke but I'd be willing to bet if he played the ultra smooth 11 on the stimpmeter greens of today he'd have adjusted to it and done rather well.  which begs another interesting question, should we bring back the stymie?

[BCrosby]

Jones had a loop in his swing. He took it back dramatically inside the plane and then looped it back out, on plane.

The thing that strikes me every time I see the films is Jones's incredibly fluid body action. He made a huge turn in perfect balance. Beautiful.

It was his body action, I think, that allowed him to generate so much lag. Jones was very long for his time.

Fascinating films, even with all the corn-pone humor.

Bob

[Daniel_Wexler]

Tom MacWood, etc.

Not long after Lost Links was published, I was contacted by a local historian here in LA who explained - quite convincingly - that the course alluded to above as possibly being Riviera (which it was NOT) was actually the old Flintridge Country Club, up near Pasadena.  Based upon the materials I gathered in profiling and mapping Flintridge for the book, it was one of the really good SoCal layouts of the era and featured several spectacular holes.  Also, this local source confirmed that Willie Watson was, in fact, Flintridge's designer.

As Geoff points out above, none of the Jones filming was done at Riviera...though one truly wonders why not given the plethora of other "interesting" things (e.g. an episode of Batman) that did use the club's grounds.

DW

[Willie_Dow]

RDecker

Yes re the stymie!  But only if they let the greens grow to ?
It was probably 3/16 then.

Willie

[T_MacWood]

Fascinating information. I'll have to look at those shows a little more closely.

I saw a couple shows the other day--one with WC Fields and Charlie Chan (actually the actor who played Charlie Chan). I don't think Chan said a word (which was disapointing) but he looked to have a good swing. Fields was lurking under the Eucilyptous (sp?), or whatever those white trunked trees are, which brought Riviera to mind, I suspect that was Flintridge (and the elusive Willie Watson).

The prior episode had Jones teaching greenside bunker shots. The bunker had a jagged outline--maybe Billy Bell? Midwick?

I recall seeing an episode a while back with a massive (and deep) greenside bunker...Lakeside was my first thought.

[Scott_Burroughs]

Well, I was wrong about Riviera (it's amazing how much it looked like #9), but got the Flintridge part right.  

[Jonathan Cummings]

In the early-mid 1980s the Callaway Company was started in LaJolla CA.  The first thing they tried to market was a set of original hickory irons, which were sold in the spirit of Bobby Jones and honoring the traditional golf era.  Trouble was at $2000 a set no one was buying them and the fledgling company was going out of business.  At about this time the 16mm Jones films teaching the likes of WC Fields, Errol Flynn, etc at Riveria and Lakeside were found in some dusty archive in Hollywood.  Callaway bought the rights to these; made VHS (and BETA!) tapes and they sold like crazy for $150 a set.  The income from the tapes kept Callaway from declaring bankruptcy, which they were within a hair’s breath of doing.  The next year Callaway came out with The Big Bertha and the rest was history.

Here is a personal aside.  I was playing Torrey Pines around this time.  I was a walk-on single paired with a father/son from the Midwest and tall guy who was a scratch golfer and a VP of Callaway.  They had just come out with the Jones lessons and I told him I knew of the tapes and the hickory irons.  Well after that he talked about Callaway non-stop the entire round to the point where I couldn’t wait until the 18th when I could get out of there.  After the round he followed me to my car and insisted that I come over to his shop to see the place.  I said no but did agree to go over to his car in the parking so he could give me some literature.  He opened his trunk and I kid you not the entire Callaway product line was on display in this guy’s trunk – hickory shafts, VHS, business cards, brochures, logo balls.  I wonder if the guy stayed with Callaway.  If so he probably did quite well!

JC

[BCrosby]

There is an interesting story about how Ely Callaway got the Jones films. He was related to Bobby Jones. They had a common great grandfather. Ely (from LaGrange) spent a lot of time with Jones and his kids (from Atlanta).

Everyone in the family knew about the films; there were lots of prints floating around the Jones family, at ANGC and at Peachtree. But they had all deteriorated badly and couldn't be viewed.

When Turner bought MGM's film library, Callaway asked if they might have a copy in their vaults. They got back a couple of months later and said they didn't. Another couple of months later they called and said that they had found the 14 cans, but that they weren't going to pay to have them restored. So Callaway did.

That's how Callaway Golf got control of the Jones films. Turns out they were in great condition and required little restoration. He said a couple of times that saving the films was one of his accomplishments he valued the most.

Bob

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Flintridge CC, lets see now, to get there I would have to take the LA to Canada Freeway correct Daniel or Geoff?

Bob,
If you listen to certain people in this forum, they claim we didn't have any good golf courses herein SoCal at one time. I of course would love to refute that at every chance, and I ache with pain knowing what is currently going on at Riviera.

I look at aerial photos of Annandale, Midwick, San Pedro Golf & CC and many others dreaming of what was once here. It was some pretty interesting stuff indeed, and I find it highly ironic that guys like Geoff and Daniel, as well David Moriarty, David Kelly, Lynn and myself all seem so drawn to this stuff for what seems to be a lifetime. When I drive past the areas that the courses once existed, I feel a great pain as if I'm driving past a cemetary that holds the remains of a loved one.

It F%&*ING hurts!


As far as Turner or Callaway, thank God either one of them didn't colorize them! Or maybe that would be interesting to guys like us? Here's one I did of Bel Air #1



Does anyone know if they make that in DVD or, is it still even available?

[THuckaby2]

Flintridge CC, lets see now, to get there I would have to take the LA to Canada Freeway correct Daniel or Geoff?

Is this the same as what's currently known as La Canada - Flintridge CC?  I played several high school matches there... you wanna talk home course advantage?  Visiting players didn't have a prayer.  If this is the one, yes Tommy it's up the "LA to Canada", find your way to the 210, off at Angeles Crest...  

And it's certainly not ironic that all you SoCal boys are so into missing links - you have SO many of them right at your doorstep.  Fortunately up here in the better half of the state, nearly all of our great courses still exist.  

TH

[Scott_Burroughs]

Tom,

No, it's not the same course.  The Flintridge from the Jones films is an NLE.

[THuckaby2]

Scott:

Bummer.  La Canada -Flintridge is a very strange but very cool course.

TH

[Tom MacWood]

Bump.

[BCrosby]

I have always understood that most of the shorts were filmed at Lakeside because of its proximity to the studios. But I think other courses were used as well.

Bob