Top 18 Quirky holes

[Matthew Sander]

Jim,

In thinking about this exercise it sort of occured to me that "quirky" isn't that acceptable in modern day designs.

Why was there an abundance of "quirky" holes in the classic or "Golden Age" courses when golf was less of an aerial game ?

Is it because golf was less of an aerial game ?

Patrick,

I think part of the explanatoin of lack of "quirk" in modern designs rests with the culture of modern golf. It would seem that golden age golf centered more around the golf club mentality. More courses were designed for a private clientele and even the public facilities enjoyed more of a dedicated and less transient customer base. If a player has the opportunity to play a course repeatedly, the quirk of a hole becomes charming and a unique challenge.  I believe that today, far fewer players associate with a single club or even a handful of clubs. Therefore, many courses are built to attract a revolving clientele that wouldn't necessarily appreciate the strategic elements of a quirky hole in one or two playings. For that matter, the hole may even be labeled as unfair. This trend may actually be reversing as we speak. Today's best designers seem to excel at the subtle strategy (especially in and around greens) that may take several visits to fully appreciate...just a thought...

Matt

[Tom_Doak]

Mike:

Many of your picks are holes where a good player might choose not to hit driver off the tee, because of something abrupt happening in the landing area.  The 4th and 13th at St. Andrews would also qualify by that definition.

But you can't beat the 15th hole at Boat of Garten for quirk in the landing area ... the landing area just disappears down into a gulley!

I do agree with the general sentiment here that quirk is tougher to incorporate into modern courses.  Some such features are eliminated because of safety concerns -- it's pretty much impossible to put a road or a boundary into play nowadays, and then there are other places where you have to worry about a rebound from a rock outcropping, or a steep drop in a fairway where somebody might turn over a golf cart (ugh).  

Plus, there is a general expectation for new courses that the modern architect could have easily bulldozed the offending item, so anybody who gets screwed over by a bad bounce is more likely to complain.  There's no architect to complain to on the 16th at North Berwick ... which Mike somehow forgot to include on his list!!

What's the quirkiest hole at St. Andrews Beach or Barnbougle?  

[Mike_Clayton]

Tom,

I agree - how could I miss 16 at North Berwick ?- another green that you could never build these days because of the criticism it would attract.
I guess that is reinforced by the criticism of 13 at Barnbougle - which qualifies as quirky. Needless to say it is loved and loathed in equal measure.
If I had to pick another it would be 8 with the split fairway and the blind pitch after a lay-up.
At St Andrews Beach I think the blind green - for shorter hitters - at 1 is quirky. Many would have put that green to the right so you could see it from the fairway.
I would include the greensite at 3 as a quirky feature.

Speaking of rock outcroppings - I played at Jack's Point a couple of weeks ago and at the 2nd hole - a long uphill par four - there are rock outcroppings right and left of the fairway in the driving area.
The guy I was playing with was telling me about a golfer who had recently lost an eye when he thinned a long iron into the rock and it came back and hit him
My partner then proceeded to take a rescue club and whack it straight into the rocks - and fortunately it rebounded sideways but it is all to easy for it to come straight back.

[Anthony Gray]

  14 Cruden Bay....the blind 2nd to a bath tub green.

  Prestwick 1.....Stone wall and railroad down the right.

  Royal County Down 9...Great tee shot and gren site behind the riidge on the right. Bunkers guard the low entry. How many architects would have put the green infront of the ridge?

  3 at Prestwick ... The Cardinal

  2 Kiawa Ocean..love itSimiliar to 3 at Prestwick.

  17 Sawgrass

  Kinsbarns 8....you can putt it.

  Bandon Trails 14...Fights the land.Straight hole that never plays straight. Awesome green.

  Spyglass 4...memorable green.

  Chambers Bay 16...green complex.

  Harbour Towne 9...boomerang green.

  Bandon Dunes 16...short but tricky

  Teeth of the dog 5... in the ocean.

  NGLA 3... a classic.

  Prestwick 5...blind par three over a mountain.

 

  These haven't been mentiond yet.

  Anthony

[Alex Miller]

Anthony,

I like your list, but how can you have Kiawah's 2nd and Prestwick's 3rd which you say are similar? Doesn't quirk distinguish the hole from others?
I am not very familiar with Prestwick so an explanation of the similarities and differences would be much appreciated.

thanks

[Anthony Gray]

Anthony,

I like your list, but how can you have Kiawah's 2nd and Prestwick's 3rd which you say are similar? Doesn't quirk distinguish the hole from others?
I am not very familiar with Prestwick so an explanation of the similarities and differences would be much appreciated.

thanks

  First and second shots are both over hazards and both the long and short misses are punished. Neither tee ball is a driver. Both par 5s with similiar shot values on each shot. Similar tee ball,second and approach.

  Anthony

[Anthony Gray]

  I also like 2 at Dornach. Looks like they just kept piling up dirt and forgot to stop.

  Anthony

[mark chalfant]

1. Franklin Hills
2. Harrison Hills (Langford) punchbowl
3. Oak Tree (Dye)  580 yards lively topography  
4. Fishers Island
5. Longmeadow    crosses 2 gullies,  onlly 318 yards !!
6  Oak Hill West    rollercoaster par five
7. Lawsonia   boxcar
8. Prairie Dunes
9. CC of Troy    one of Travis'  greatest greens


10  NCR  (Wilson)  530  downhill  to a magnificent  green complex
11. CC of Buffalo   Quarry !!    408 yards
12  Forsgate  145 yards
13. Oklahoma City (Maxwell)  bommerang par  5
14. White Bear Yacht   350 yards
15. Round Hill   (Travis)    semiblind
16. Calclub !!    135 yards
17. Longmeadow ( Ross)
18. Yale

[JNC Lyon]

1) Yeamans Hall, 420 yards, Par 4
2) Irondequoit, 170, Par 3
3) The Ocean Course, 390 Yards, Par 4
4) Huntercombe, 330 Yards, Par 4
5) Sandwich, 415 Yards, Par 4
6) CC of Buffalo, 175 yards, Par 3
7) Fox Chapel, 300 Yards, Par 4
8. Irondequoit, 420, Par 4
9) Durand Eastman, 435, Par 5
Out) 3050 yards, Par 35
10) The Country Club, 300 Yards, Par 4
11) Kettle Brook, 525 Yards, Par 5
12) Leatherstocking, 130 Yards, Par 3
13) CC of Buffalo, 560 yards, Par 5
14) Canterbury Woods, 360, Par 4
15) CC of Rochester, 460 Yards, Par 5
16) Teugega, 410 Yards, Par 4
17) Long Shadow, 195 Yards, Par 3
18) Hanover Country Club, 470 Yards, Par 5
In) 3310 Yards, Par 38
Total) 6360 Yards, Par 73

[JNC Lyon]

1. Franklin Hills
2. Harrison Hills (Langford) punchbowl
3. NGLA
4. Fishers Island
5. Friars Head
6. BCC 5 Farms
7. Lawsonia
8. Prairie Dunes
9. CC of Troy

10  NCR
11. Mayfield
12  Forsgate
13. Oklahoma City (Maxwell)  bommerang par  5
15. Round Hill   Travis
16. Calclub   135 yards
17. Longmeadow  Ross
18. Yale

Mark,

I'm surprised to see that you did not include any holes from Irondequoit.  The front nine there is one of the quirkiest in the Northeast, no?

[Tim Martin]

1. Franklin Hills
2. Harrison Hills (Langford) punchbowl
3. NGLA
4. Fishers Island
5. Friars Head
6. BCC 5 Farms
7. Lawsonia
8. Prairie Dunes
9. CC of Troy

10  NCR
11. Mayfield
12  Forsgate
13. Oklahoma City (Maxwell)  bommerang par  5
15. Round Hill   Travis
16. Calclub   135 yards
17. Longmeadow  Ross
18. Yale

Mark- Raynor was fond of the blind shot second. Is this what makes`s # 4 quirky for you at Fishers? No disputing it is a great hole and one everybody remembers. 

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Painswick  enough said

[Mac Plumart]

I don't think I can come up with 18 holes, but how about 16 at Harbour Town.  There is a tree smack dab in the middle of the fairway right as the hole doglegs at 260 yards.  Smack dab in the middle of the DAMN fairway!!

5 (I think it is 5) at Longshadow...another tree in the middle of the fairway.  No dogleg on this one, but right in your line of attack.

16 TPC Sawgrass...again tree cutting off the line of attack to the green and in the middle of the fairway...but more greenside than the others.

I can't say 17 at Sawgrass is quirky...as quirky to me implies interesting/unique architecture with a positive aura...17 to me isn't interesting, so I simply call it goofy.

8 at Longaberger...At the tee box you can decide to approach the green from the low side or the high side of this severely sloped
fairway.  The high side is safer, but you will have to deal with a massive side hill lie as you approach the peninsula
green.  The low side can give you a flat lie and a closer approach, but you will challenge the rough, some trees,
and the water.

Heck...maybe I can do 18...I'll stop now and think some more and update if I can get a18 holes.

[Mac Plumart]

Alright...I think I got it...

1--Secession...opening hole, forced carry over the marsh, fairway is shallow and doglegs right.  Tough opener.
2--Rio Secco...lunar landing site; weird
3--Currahee...par 3 forced carry over a seemingly bottomless pit; green has a false front
4--Charlie Yates...80ish yard hole that drops 30+ yards with a fat bunker in front of the green and a lake behind it
5--Longshadow...as I mentioned above a tree in the middle of the fairway
6--Lookout Mountain...tee box is a rocky crag, like a mountain...it's the Raynor "Short"
7--Legends at Chateau Elan...95 yard tee shot down hill to a funky green guarded by bunker.
8--Longaberger...see above post
9--St. Marlo...severly uphill hole that ends with even more uphill antics as the green is perched on a rocky cliff
10--Inverness...shares a tee box and fairway bunkers with hole #1
11--Golf Club of GA Lakeside...cool hole!!  long par 5 that plays into a penninsula green
12--Pete Dye Golf Club of WV...drivable par 4, but the green is hidden behind a hill
13--Cuscowilla...tough hole, uphill, long, tricky green
14--Stonehouse...I think I've got the right hole...MASSIVE drop from the middle of the fairway to the green
15--Achasta...par 5 with a 100 yard wide river in the middle of the fairway
16--Harbour Town...see above post.
17--Black Diamond Ranch Quarry...225 yard par 3 playing down into the quarry...green looks awesome!
18--East Lake...longish par 3, 'tweener hole in the context of what club to hit.

[Tom MacWood]

I like Mark's list. Some others that come to mind the 17th at Crystal Downs, 2nd at Mayfield, the 2-or-20 hole at Engineers, the Heinz 57 hole at Hollywood, the 13th at Franklin Hills, the 16th at Cape Breton, the 17th at Columbia, 6th at Pebble Beach, 18th at CPC, 15th at Canterbury,  10th and 6th at Riviera, and the 16th at NGLA.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Interesting that, so far, no one picked the five and dime hole at Ridgewood.

[Greg Tallman]

#17 Pete Dye Golf Club (Bridgeport, WV)
#11 Bahia de los Sueños (La Paz, Baja California Sur)
#12 Cinnamon Hill (Rose Hall, Jamaica)
#10 Port Royal Golf Club (Bermuda)
#2   Sandals Resort (St Lucia)
#5   Club Campestre San José (Cabo)
#9   Querencia Golf Club (Cabo)
#12 Golf Club of West Virginia (Waverly, WV)
#12 Oxbow Golf Club (Belpre, Ohio)
#17 The Dunes Course @ Diamante (Cabo)
#18 Americana Host Farms, (Lancaster, PA)
#15 Tannenhauf Golf Club (Alliance, Ohio)
#9   Sewickley Heights Golf Club (Sewickley, PA)
#14 Sandpiper Golf Club (Lakeland, FL)
#6   Scotland Yards Golf Club (Dade City, FL)
#14 Guyan Golf & CC (Huntington, WV)
#5   Long Cove Club (Hilton Head, SC)
#17 Guyan Golf & CC (Huntington, WV)

[Mac Plumart]

Greg...17 at PDGC of WV...nice one...what a green!

[Jim_Kennedy]

Interesting that, so far, no one picked the five and dime hole at Ridgewood.

Equally as interesting: no list, so far, from the creator of this topic. 

[Matt_Ward]

Pat:

Ridgewood's five & dime is a good choice - a better one is the 10th at Alpine.

You won't see any modern hole designed the way that hole is today.

It climbs no less than 100 feet straight up and the green is angled to easily provide a quick three-jack.

The hole was even more quirky when the trees -- which since have been cut -- were part of the mix.

Gents:

#18 had Yale has to be the closing hole -- again, you would not see such a closer given today's design styles.

If you want a really fun and quirky starting hole - the 1st at Sanctuary by Jim Engh does that for me. Play the Rattlesnake tees and it will give you all the thrills and unpredictability one could ever want.

The 2nd at Wolf Creek (Mesquite, NV) has got be also considered a prime candidate. Just the walk back to the champ tee (provided they give you oxygen when you get there) can be enough of an issue for most. When you stand and gaze upon what you need to do from an execution standpoint -- it makes you simply hope for the best.

[Rick Shefchik]

Matt -- How about #1 at Black Mesa? I know you like the hole better than I do, but that's quirk on a plate.

[Jim_Kennedy]

http://www.imperialklubgolf.com/index_sub.asp?fuseaction=Course

Take your pick 

[Patrick_Mucci]

Jim Kennedy,

I don't think I'd be far off by naming most of the holes at NGLA.

My initial, off the top of my head list might look like this

Holes 1, 2, 3 and 4 would probably be from NGLA.

# 6 probably Ridgewood Center (5 &10)
# 7 probably PBGC
# 8 probably NGLA
# 9 and # 10 probably Shinnecock although Yales #'s 9 and 10 could fit
# 11 probably NGLA

# 17 probably TPC
# 18 Yale

I'll fill in more "probable" blanks later this week

[JNC Lyon]

Jim Kennedy,

I don't think I'd be far off by naming most of the holes at NGLA.

My initial, off the top of my head list might look like this

Holes 1, 2, 3 and 4 would probably be from NGLA.

# 6 probably Ridgewood Center (5 &10)
# 7 probably PBGC
# 8 probably NGLA
# 9 and # 10 probably Shinnecock although Yales #'s 9 and 10 could fit
# 11 probably NGLA

# 17 probably TPC
# 18 Yale

I'll fill in more "probable" blanks later this week

Isn't NGLA's 4th a prototype for every MRB Redan hole in the US?  Would such a hole qualify as quirky?

[Jim_Kennedy]

Royal North Devon #6 might be in contention.