"Goofy" Prestwick...

[SGD]

...it's not.  It's one of the greatest living museums in the game.

The thread "Is the 4th hole at Spyglass Goofy?" made me recall my one visit to old Prestwick.  If you were to set aside the unparalleled history there, and "analyzed" each hole, architecturally, we'd have over ten threads for ten different holes (1,5 13 would all have 40+ posts) opining if they were "goofy" or not.

But I'll tell you what, it's more fun than you can believe.  It's unbelievably natural, brown, unfair, rewarding, surprising, simple, tempting, damning, thrilling...I can come up with 100 adjectives to describe what a NEAT place it is.  I'd say it's the third course I'd bring somebody playing in Scotland for the first time to after The Old Course and Dornoch.

I'd be interested in hearing other opinions and experiences.

[Gib_Papazian]

If I could magically be beamed to Scotland tommorrow morning and was limited to playing only two courses, they would be Prestwick and North Berwick. Enough said.  

[Dickie Wrist]

Of course one of the adjectives that you should not have used was 'neat'.  in the UK this generally means tidy, adn so could probably be applied to Augusta, but not to links-land like Prestwick. Try unkempt.....

[Paul Daley]

SGD:

Great post. Just what constitutes the best links, or the best inland courses - is always up for grabs. But when it comes to the links centres one should visit for the purpose of rounding out their links scholarship, or for starting it, only four stand out:

TOC
North Berwick (West Links)
Prestwick
Cruden Bay

At these venerable hubs of golf, one is confronted by quaint, quirky, antiquated routings, blind holes, pitches over stone fences, bewilderingly contoured greens, ominously positioned OOB fences, and a general heartbeat - on and off the course -that literally 'drips' golf.

[Ran Morrissett]

While some try to dismiss the on-going merits of the course, Prestwick will never go away as it is blessed with undeniably GREAT golf holes - a great par five (the 3rd) , two great short par fours (1st, 15th), one of the best ever long par fours (13th) , two great intermediate par fours (4th, 17th), and some great greens (the 9th, 16th) are thrown in too.

In terms of variety, Turnberry doesn't compare in a favorable manner but then again Prestwick lacks a lighthouse  

What are its weaknesses? Its one shotters - as a set aren't nearly of the class of those at North Berwick, for instance.

Regardless, few courses are as refreshing to play, with the course highlighting that a) golf is a game that is both fair and unfair and b) there are no architecture "rules" that need to be followed.

Cheers,

[wsmorrison]

Thanks for getting me psyched for my August trip to Scotland!  I've been to Scotland four times, but stuck to the east coast from North Berwick to Dornoch.  This trip I'm starting out on the west coast at Turnberry, Prestwick, Troon, and Western Gailes.  Then I'm off to play courses I've been to before and love.  Driving up to Dornoch to play there as many times as I can in four days along with other local courses.  Driving to Nairn to play.  Then down the east coast to Cruden Bay and Royal Aberdeen.  Then to St. Andrews to play TOC, Craighead (haven't played it yet although played Crail), New, and Jubilee.  

If only I had time to go to Greywalls again and play Muirfield, North Berwick and Gullane.  Well, there's always next year.

My brother, who has travelled with me to Scotland on more than one ocassion now likes to go to Ireland more so than Scotland.  I've stayed with going to Scotland, so I travel with my sons to Scotland and have the greatest trips.  My brother hasn't fully explained why he prefers Ireland.  I'm not sure if it is the golf or the total package.  Will some of you experienced in both countries compare and contrast the golf and people of Ireland and Scotland?

[Richard_Goodale]

SGD

I agree that whole threads could be written on the 1st or 16th or many other holes at Prestwick.  They are.  Periodically.  Same for NGLA, Dornoch, Ballybunoin, Cypress, et., etc.  Unfortunately after they die out they all go to that little bit of uncharted cyberspace in the sky reserved for GCA "archives."  Would that it not be so, but it is....

TomH

I wish I were moving "near" to Dornoch, but I'll be in Aberdour, a good 3 1/2 hours away (just bought a house).  I'll have to content myself with most of my rounds being at Not Really Royal Aberdour.

ws

As for the Irish/Scotish question.  It all gets down to personal taste, and, dare I say, bias?  They are two countries bound together by a common gene pool but separated by centuries of bloody history.  The two places have a different "look and feel" to them, even the golf courses, due to climate, culture, topography and land ownership paterns.  They ar both great in their own way, and each has its limitations too.  However, anybody who could not fully enjoy golfing in both places is some funny kind of golfer, at least IMHO.

[Gib_Papazian]

Actually, could devote an entire thread just to Sea Heatherick.

Once day, I am going to build a green like #14 at Prestwick.

Stood on the tee at 2 under par. Walked off the green at 2 over.  Between Willie Campbell's bunker off the tee and a nifty 4-putt, it was the most enjoyable and memorable quadruple bogey of my life.

Naturally, after a stellar comeback on #15, I promptly yanked my tee shot (trying to play safe) into Campbell's bunker again on #16. However, I managed to escape with only a triple-bogey

[wsmorrison]

Thank you Rich and Tom for your comments.  I know what you mean about such comparisons being overwhelmingly subjective.  Although I have not been to Ireland, I may just make that next year's trip.  These kind of trips with friends, family, and especially sons is a great relief and makes hard work more worthwhile.  I do enjoy visiting new places, playing new golf courses and studying the histories involved in the various countries.  

So I'm convinced, I'll begin the planning the Ireland trip.  A good friend is from Galway and I'll ask his opinion, but how about your own suggestions on where to go for a two week trip?  Golf is tops on my list, but I'll be with my two sons and they like other venues as well (castles, museums, battlefields, and the like).  Any help would be welcome.

Rich, what's going on in Aberdour to initiate the move over there?  Are you planning on living there 12 months a year?  When my oldest son, David (11), and I were in Dornoch last year, he said that he felt at home there and wants to move there someday.  I have to agree, I feel strongly connected to that place.  Can't say why, but it is an undeniable compulsion to want to be there, and it isn't just for the golf, which I absolutley love.  I am seriously going to look at real estate during this trip in August.  Yet, I know that I could not leave my home in the Philly suburbs permanently.  So I would look at the purchase of a home in Dornoch as an investment in my future there when I could envsion myself living there for 3 or 4 months a year.  I could always rent it out to GCA types.

I always welcome your contributions to this site, gentlemen, please let me know your thoughts on where to go in Ireland.  Happy Easter!  I'm going to the Homestead and playing the Cascades for the first time; research for my Flynn book and fun for the family and I.  I know that I am meeting Sam Snead Jr., perhaps Sr. as well.  He's showing me his father's collection of golf memorabilia and helping me research Flynn's work at the Cascades Course.  BTW, Sam Snead Sr. has the course record at both Cascades (he helped construct the 3rd green as a kid) and Lower Cascades (shot a 61 when he was 72!).  11 strokes under your age has got to be a record that may never be broken.  It should be a lot of fun and very interesting.  Will report back upon my return.
 

[Slag_Bandoon]

 After being awake for 24 hours, I come home, wash up, brush all 7 teeth, lay in bed and read "Hell's Golfer" for a while, fall dreamily asleep, wake up, make a lumberjack-sized fried hash browns and eggs breakfast, drop in my Runrig CD, open up my e-mail and see my Prestwick tee time has been re-reconfirmed -- thorough bunch there.  Then, I peruse GCA and Prestwick is alive and well in the hearts of dreamers and reminiscencers.  A good day.  

Richard,  In the kingdom of Fife?   ... what will Heaven be for?



  "...things began to get dangerous.  I was reading real estate ads."

    Lorne Rubenstein,        A Season in Dornoch

[Paul Turner]

Does anyone think Prestwick is a tough course?  I certainly so.  Certainly harder than N. Berwick (its east coast quirky equivalent).  

I only remember the 14th and 18th as being pretty easy.

Anyone got any ideas on how to play the approach at the 15th??!

[johnk]

Paul,

Defining tough is hard.  I think Cruden Bay is tough...  Prestwick and N.Berwick are more fun than tough, in my mind.

I've scored better at N.Berwick than Prestwick, but I'd take
either of them as my daily course, so in that sense neither is tough at all.

In fact, when I first visited, I was convinced that they were the 2 courses I liked best.  However, being away from Scotland, the Old Course calls me the most.

However, I'd prefer either of the quiet and quirky two-some as the home course - much easier to get a game on a daily basis.

[Ran Morrissett]

Paul, I agree - in part, doesn't Prestwick seem to play narrower than North Berwick or Brancaster or Westward Ho! ?

There is definitely more teeth to its rough. Plus aren't the greens generally very firm and keen? Play is more restiricted than at many U.K. courses, which helps the conditions from being compromised (the gorse isn't relentlessly trampled upon, etc.).

On a side note, I like the way they send visitors off in groups of two - not much reason for a round to take three hours.

All told, Prestwick held up extremely well at the Brit. Am. a few years back - to no one's surprise here, I'm sure.

Out of curiousity, any idea how long they can stretch the course these days? 6,700y?

[ChipOat]

Ran:

Another reason for fast play at Prestwick is the stakes they have in the deep rough every 50 yards or so to help one locate one's ball.

[Tim_Weiman]

SGD:

Prestwick still rates as one of my favorite places in the world of golf.

Along with Merion, which I visited yesterday, it is testimony to how silly the golf technology arms race is.

I'm happy to see other sing it praise and that no less than Ran Morrissett shares my affection for #15.


WSMorrison:

You really can't go wrong with either Scotland or Ireland, though personally I prefer Ireland and have spent far more time there.

I won't say one is better than the other, but will suggest that if you have two weeks you should spend the first in Scotland.  You will enjoy Ireland's informality after playing in Scotland.  Trying to do it the other way around doesn't quite work, in my opinion.

[THuckaby2]

SGD:
I won't say one is better than the other, but will suggest that if you have two weeks you should spend the first in Scotland.  You will enjoy Ireland's informality after playing in Scotland.  Trying to do it the other way around doesn't quite work, in my opinion.

Agreed 100% and I am darn glad the real expert chimed in!  But that's a very good point and very true.  Luckily, that's how I did it.

TH

[Dan Kelly]

Tim & Tom --

Personally, I can't imagine its not "working" for me either way.

My God, I'd give ... a lot for two weeks in those fine countries. In either order. At any time.

What didn't work for me, after my one quick trip to Scotland and my own quick trip to Ireland, was coming home -- to these endless ugly rows of cheaply built fast-food joints and Brobdingnabian-scale strip malls of latter-day America.

For days afterward, virtually everything here of human construction looked so shabby, cheap, and colorless -- and the newer, the worse.

Not that I'm complaining, of course.  

[Tim_Weiman]

Paul Turner:

I haven't a clue how to play the approach shot to #15 at Prestwick.  It is one of the most difficult, but fun short approach shots in golf.

If Sand Ridge, my home club, ever builds a second course in the adjacent Best Sand Company quarry, I'd love to see a replica of "Narrows" built.

It's quite surprising that we haven't had more discussion of this really cool hole.

Dan Kelly:

Actually, I feel quite privileged to be in either Scotland or Ireland anytime I'm there.......and kind of depressed when I have to leave.

[Chris_Hunt]

Ran:

From the tips, Prestwick is 6678 yards these days, SSS 73.

Regarding #15, also one of my personal favorites at Prestwick, I have included some varying angles one might encounter on the approach.  It is ever so delicate because the green slopes severely to the back and a little bit right, and I think most players are hitting some percentage of a wedge, making the distance control even trickier.  I think you really just need to land a high flying shot on the top of the ridge and a little left of the flag and let it roll down, or otherwise putt it up the slope and hope it loses momentum at the right location and funnels down slowly.  The bump and run for me is always rejected here.  Other success stories would be interesting, no doubt.

Another thing that makes the 15th great for me is that it is right at the clubhouse and allows you to play that great (exclude #18 if you like) four-hole stretch back in.  It also acts to relieve congestion at the first tee as we started from #15 the last time I played there.
I think these mini-loops near the clubhouse make a course so multi-dimensional and fun, and if I join a club in the future, I will certainly look for one that has a nice little stretch of 3,4, or 5 holes near the clubhouse to play a couple times after work, etc.

FYI.  The hole is a par-4, playing anywhere from 347 yards to about 307, depending on the tee placement for the day.


This is the approach shot (you can barely see the white flag left of the farthest bunker) for the safe driver, right of the first fairway pot, about 140 yards frorm the green.  Good luck from here...


This is the right fairway bunker, the largest on the hole, from which escape can be made with a high, 100-yard blast, to the top of the ridge in front of the green.


This is where you might find your ball if you hit a relatively long drive with a slight cut.  You have likely bumbled around in the fairway and avoided all the fairway hazards by pure good fortune.  It is a hollow with a couple mounds about 50 yards from the green, and if you get lucky enough to be in the semi-rough, a high flop shot may be pulled off quite readily.  Two right greenside bunkers must obviously be skirted.


If you absolutely crunch a drive, you will still probably not reach this point atop the ridge fronting the green, but who knows.  If your first approach flop fails, you could be here, where you get a nice view of the green and the massive hollow back left that you hit over from the 16th tee.

All in all, one of my favorite links holes, more than a little due to the vast array of textures, colors, and undulations in the ground and vegetation in this part of the course.

[Tim_Weiman]

Chris Hunt:

Thanks for the pictures.  Two questions:

1) I recall the green site being more elevated than your pictures portray.  Can you comment on that?

2) Your first picture suggests more fairway width than I recall.  Can you comment on this as well?

[Chris_Hunt]

Tim:

The green is fairly elevated...The second picture is taken from a dune next to the large fairway bunker, making the green look lower from that vantage.  Its elevation may come out a little clearer in the third picture, which is probably closer to fairway grade.  The pictures would be clearer if I played with a draw .

As for the fairway width, it is quite narrow once you get to that 220 yard mark where the rugged ridge cuts diagonally across the fairway...probably in the 12-15 yard range at that point.  The first picture is closer to 180 yards off the tee...and not a common place to find yourself.

I think the fairway seems even thinner because it is angled and you are never quite sure where to aim for any given club you may choose.  

Here are some more pictures, the first showing the fairway at its narrowest about 75 yards from the green center, the second showing the elevation of the green in relation to the 16th tee (taken looking over from the 17th fairway).  Hope these help.

[George Pazin]

Wow.

Can't believe I haven't made it over there yet.

Thanks, Chris.

[Tim_Weiman]

Chris Hunt:

I see you must be quite a student of this hole and I'm glad my memory hasn't totally failed me.

One other thing I'm curious about is how the hole plays today.
Where do guys try to hit their tee shots?  How much has technology impacted this hole (if at all)?

[Paul Daley]

Long Live Prestwick:

One of the very best pieces of news in Prestwick's proud history, was when the R & A dumped it from the Open Rota. Had it stayed on, by now it would be almost unrecognisable after the "modernising" required.

The changes - all for the sake of 4 days play every 2000-2400 days, would hardly have been worth the trouble.

Leave it, North Berwick and Cruden Bay alone: please!

[SGD]

Paul Daley, you made me smile today with your previous post:
"Long Live Prestwick"

I wish everyone who visits this website could experience the joy of playing there, even if it were just for one round.