[Tom_Doak]

How Bethpage #4 & #5 aren't mentioned here is unbelievable !
 

Keith:  If you had been to Bethpage in 1965, I think you would probably understand the omission of those two holes.

Likewise, Kevin, I suspect that in the sixties Dan Jenkins had never seen Shinnecock and National.  Not sure why he would have omitted Cypress Point, but maybe the club didn't want the publicity and he didn't want to burn a bridge there.

[Tom_Doak]

The best eclectic 18 I've seen is the one Ian Andrew posted here a couple of years ago ... even if he didn't include any of my courses.

[jonathan_becker]

What I don't get is how he goes from #1 at Sand Hills (no argument from most) to this....



Rio Secco #2


There has to be a personal story behind this for Jenkins.  It doesn't make any sense.

[Mike Hamilton]

What I don't get is how he goes from #1 at Sand Hills (no argument from most) to this....



Rio Secco #2


There has to be a personal story behind this for Jenkins.  It doesn't make any sense.

Please make sure your seat belts are securely fastened...we are cleared for landing.

[jeffwarne]

How Bethpage #4 & #5 aren't mentioned here is unbelievable !
 

Couldn't agree more! If someone is uncomfortable of back to back holes from the same course then substitute #4 from Torrey Pines South.

I'd bet my life that when Jenkins compiled the second list, he had never played or seen Bethpage.
...I mean Hogan hadn't won there.......

But based on his hysterical anecdotes about Goat Hills in Texas, he would've liked it in its pre Rees form.

[mark chalfant]

Kevin  et al

Jenkins did include NGLA and Shinnecock selections in his runner up holes.  If memory serves me those choices were the Redan at National and numbers 10 and 16 at Shinnecock Hills

He also considered courses that were true hidden gems in the 1960s  and 1970s. Desert Forest in Arizona and LANGFORD'S Wakonda, for example.

[Carr Harris]

What I don't get is how he goes from #1 at Sand Hills (no argument from most) to this....



Rio Secco #2


There has to be a personal story behind this for Jenkins.  It doesn't make any sense.

Good job Dan, I can certainly see how you could rank that better THAN EVERY SINGLE SECOND HOLE IN THE ENTIRE UNITED STATES!!!

That would be the equivalent of saying Tropicana Field is the best stadium in the history of Major League Baseball

[paul cowley]

It seems to me this exerscise is a mobious strip of where am I now and how do I get out of here?
It lacks nor will ever have any firmament.

[jonathan_becker]

After thinking about this for a second, knowing DJ's humor, some of these holes he must of picked off the top of his head.

[Carr Harris]

It seems to me this exerscise is a mobious strip of where am I now and how do I get out of here?
It lacks nor will ever have any firmament.

Haven't you just described the discussion of anything on the internet? Kudos for prompting me to google mobius strip though. That's one new thing that I learned today.

[Phil_the_Author]

Tom,

I found your answer to Keith, "If you had been to Bethpage in 1965, I think you would probably understand the omission of those two holes..." more than a little intriguing because you took him to task for not having seen the course when you, yourself, had also NOT seen the course at that time. You make the assumption that the course was in very poor condition.

Well, as one who saw those two holes, not in 1965, but did so in 1967 and numerous other times in the 1960s (now I'm feeling old!) I can state with a certainty that even though the course was scruffy and not maintained to anything even remotely close to what it is today, most courses weren't even some of the "great" ones. Those two holes were monumentally grand for any and all to see and inspired many to want to learn about what makes a golf course great regardless of their playing ability or even age.

I think you are being a bit inconsistent in asking that your opinion of the course and holes at a certain time period be given credence while you ask that Keith's is not when the truth is that neither of you had seen the course in 1965 or anywhere even close to it. 

Now in all seriousness, whether either or both 4 & 5 of Bethpage Black deserved to be on a list of the best 18 holes back then is debatable. That Jenkins deserved to have at least played the holes he cited, as all agree he hadn't, shows more than a bit of poor research at the very least and is why he is being taken to task for it, as he well should be... 

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

Dan Jenkins must have missed Shinnecock, NGLA and Cypress Point ?

Personally - if you cant find a hole from one of them.......

Here, here, and what about Riviera?

[Morgan Clawson]

In the 1965 article he said that he played all 18 of the holes:

"The holes, which add up to a dream course, were chosen by Sports Illustrated after consultation with three men who have seen hundreds of U.S. courses: USGA Executive Director Joseph Dey, Professional Byron Nelson and Amateur Charlie Coe. While in the final process of selecting the Best 18, Dan Jenkins, an 8-handicap golfer, played them all. He describes the holes, and tells how—alas—he fared."

Bethpage Black was largely unknown here in the Midwest until it was selected for the US Open. Not sure if that was the case in the East. I love the fact that it is now in the rotation.

[Kevin Pallier]

Kevin,

That's a worthwhile point for debate...which one(s) would you plug in?

I would go for 10, 11 or 16 at Shinnecock...even though I haven't played Blackwolf Run or Castle Pines.

Jim

Nor have I played the courses you mention but I'd have a hard time believing someone who cant find at least one hole from the 3 courses I listed as not worthy for selection in an original 18 of the "best" in America.

I would have to add 14 into the Shinnecock mix at the very least.

[archie_struthers]

 


the 7th at Pine Valley, while a wonderful par 5 , is not the best hole at the course by any means.  I'd say number 1, 2, 5 . 8 . 13. 15 are all better.   

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