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Bob_Huntley

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Of Apologies and Addiction
« on: March 02, 2010, 07:10:19 PM »
I think this is the best letter out of many, on the subject of Wood's mea culpa.

Of Apologies and Addiction
 
 
To the Editor:

Re “An Apology With Echoes of 12 Steps” (Feb. 23): Tiger Woods’s so-called rehabilitation and his recent public statement highlight the increasing emphasis in our culture on the symptoms of psychopathology and not the underlying causes. Mr. Woods’s arrogance, entitlement, grandiosity and dishonesty reflect character traits that therapists routinely encounter in individuals with pronounced narcissistic personality disorders.

As many therapists know, when such individuals are “caught,” the remorse they express — while seemingly genuine at the time of the crisis — is often short-lived. Unfortunately, 12-step programs for “sex addicts” often fail to appreciate and address the deeper character pathology inherent in the behavior of our modern-day Casanovas.

Jeffrey M. Slutsky
Chicago


David Sneddon

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Re: Of Apologies and Addiction
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2010, 08:33:35 PM »

The author makes valid points, IMHO.

Only one minor comment:  The author's surname is rather unfortunate, given the subject.

 ;)     ;)
Give my love to Mary and bury me in Dornoch

Tim Martin

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Re: Of Apologies and Addiction
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2010, 08:46:35 PM »
Has anyone with a net worth of less than $10,000,000 ever been clinically treated for sex addiction?

Bill_McBride

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Re: Of Apologies and Addiction
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2010, 08:47:24 PM »

The author makes valid points, IMHO.

Only one minor comment:  The author's surname is rather unfortunate, given the subject.

 ;)     ;)

 I once met a very attractive Mrs. Slutsky at a cocktail party in Montecito and was unable to get her off my mind for months.  

Jason Topp

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Re: Of Apologies and Addiction
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2010, 08:54:04 PM »
While I am sure the quote provides accurate analysis, I have no idea what else one would expect Woods to do.  At least he is giving the appearance of attempting to improve.  His actions rather than his statements will determine his legacy.

Michael Blake

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Re: Of Apologies and Addiction
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2010, 08:55:47 PM »
Has anyone with a net worth of less than $10,000,000 ever been clinically treated for sex addiction?

A friend of mine has been getting treatment for a couple of years now.  Seriously.


TEPaul

Re: Of Apologies and Addiction
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2010, 09:07:52 PM »
"Unfortunately, 12-step programs for “sex addicts” often fail to appreciate and address the deeper character pathology inherent in the behavior of our modern-day Casanovas."


BobH:

Applying the so-called 12-step addiction program to this modern term "sex addiction" would probably fail to address the whatever one wants to call it in true casanovas of any age, past, present and future. When I first heard that term---eg "sex addiction" and "sex addiction therapy" and now "12 step sex addiction therapy", I must say the sheer incongruity of it all really made me laugh.

I know we're getting older but it seems like the world these days wraps most any issue, big or small, in way too much complexity or perhaps even something of the counterpoint to that---eg cheap-sell, fast-profit, quick-fix panaceas. That might even be a natural evolution as things just get faster for all of us with so much faster communication, better technology, more and more instant gratification etc.

On that note of making something too complicated, I was playing once in a pretty important tournament around here with a really great player from HVGC who was a real breath of fresh-air always because he was so honest and uncomplicated about the way he approached any kind of problem or obstacle; his or others. I was going on and on in the beginning of the round about whether I should get married or not and after a few holes of that he said: "Look, do you love her or don't you?" I said: "Yes I love her." And he said: "That's all you need to know, end of discussion."
« Last Edit: March 02, 2010, 09:20:55 PM by TEPaul »

Dan Kelly

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Re: Of Apologies and Addiction
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2010, 09:08:40 PM »
I think this is the best letter out of many, on the subject of Wood's mea culpa.

...12-step programs for “sex addicts” ...


Jedediah Leland: "You just don't know Charlie. He thought that by finishing
  that notice he could show me he was an honest man. He was always
  trying to prove something. The whole thing about Susie being an
  opera singer, that was trying to prove something. You know what the
  headline was the day before the election, 'Candidate Kane found in
  love nest with quote, singer, unquote.' He was gonna take the
  quotes off the singer."

Susan Alexander Kane: "Love! You don't love anybody! Me or anybody else! You want to
  be loved -- thats all you want!"

Who is going to write "Citizen Woods"?

"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Garland Bayley

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Re: Of Apologies and Addiction
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2010, 10:24:07 PM »

The author makes valid points, IMHO.

Only one minor comment:  The author's surname is rather unfortunate, given the subject.

 ;)     ;)

How the heck would you know? What are the credentials of the author? Pot shot artist? This thread is nothing more than yet another thinly veiled racist attack on Tiger IMO. Arnie cheated. Why don't you write about that for awhile.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Martin Toal

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Of Apologies and Addiction
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2010, 10:44:24 PM »


How the heck would you know? What are the credentials of the author? Pot shot artist? This thread is nothing more than yet another thinly veiled racist attack on Tiger IMO. Arnie cheated. Why don't you write about that for awhile.


Nonsense, and offensive too, playing the race card. Shame on you.

So, assuming you have not been paying attention, the issue is not cheating, although I doubt Arnie had the same capacity as Tiger for it.

The issue is blaming a lack of self control and narcissism on a spurious addiction rather than a simple lack of self control.

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Of Apologies and Addiction
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2010, 10:52:47 PM »


How the heck would you know? What are the credentials of the author? Pot shot artist? This thread is nothing more than yet another thinly veiled racist attack on Tiger IMO. Arnie cheated. Why don't you write about that for awhile.


Nonsense, and offensive too, playing the race card. Shame on you.

So, assuming you have not been paying attention, the issue is not cheating, although I doubt Arnie had the same capacity as Tiger for it.

The issue is blaming a lack of self control and narcissism on a spurious addiction rather than a simple lack of self control.

Which part of yet another thread didn't you understand?
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Martin Toal

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Of Apologies and Addiction
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2010, 11:35:58 PM »


How the heck would you know? What are the credentials of the author? Pot shot artist? This thread is nothing more than yet another thinly veiled racist attack on Tiger IMO. Arnie cheated. Why don't you write about that for awhile.


Nonsense, and offensive too, playing the race card. Shame on you.

So, assuming you have not been paying attention, the issue is not cheating, although I doubt Arnie had the same capacity as Tiger for it.

The issue is blaming a lack of self control and narcissism on a spurious addiction rather than a simple lack of self control.

Which part of yet another thread didn't you understand?


I understand it just fine, thanks. apart from where the heck you see anything to suggest this thread is in any way racist.

The OP cited a letter saying, in essence, that the whole addiction excuse is a complete crock. I agree. Cheating, although a key part of the problem, is not the specific issue in debate. Faux claims of addiction and running off to rehab is. Did Arnie do either of those?

Then you wade in with racism, a sort of Godwin's law for these threads. I think you are the one who is out of step with the direction of thread and are instead pursuing a different debate. Which is also BS, so perhaps that is the unifying feature.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2010, 11:40:23 PM by Martin Toal »

Rick Shefchik

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Re: Of Apologies and Addiction
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2010, 11:39:31 PM »
Garland, the only racism being exhibited here is the notion that any criticism of a partly black golfer must somehow be because he is partly black.
"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

Mark Pearce

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Re: Of Apologies and Addiction
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2010, 03:44:28 AM »
?

I read Garland's post and assumed it was a witty pastiche of our friend Doug.  I smiled inwardly.  Please tell me I'm right and he wasn't serious?
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Anthony Gray

Re: Of Apologies and Addiction
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2010, 06:07:39 AM »


  Garland is not racist. I have a black wife and he has never refused an invitation to have dinner with me. He has never refused an invitation for golf. He has extended an invitation for me to stay at his house. As far as this "SEX ADDICTION" topic.Guilty. It is one of my favorite topics on GCA. I wish this thread came with pictures.


  Anthony Ray Gray DMD PC ADD GCA


Mike Sweeney

Re: Of Apologies and Addiction
« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2010, 06:31:32 AM »
Mr. Woods’s arrogance, entitlement, grandiosity and dishonesty reflect character traits that therapists routinely encounter in individuals with pronounced narcissistic personality disorders.


A good friend of mine worked for Sports Illustrated when Eldrick Woods was on the first cover and he was in Florida at the photo shoot. Eldrick was very young and my friend commented more about the people surrounding him. In a nutshell, most everything was done for him and Eldrick seemed to have little REAL relationships. My friend has seen a ton of these guys from Lance to Marion Jones who have all had controversies, but his Eldrick comments seemed unique, at least to me but I am a golfer so who knows.

I think as a result of everything going on (Tiger, another NY governor potentially being forced from an office that this one was not even elected to), I am now reading Where Men Win Glory by Jon Krakauer - The Odssey of Pat Tillman the NFL football player turned Army Ranger shot by friendly fire. Just getting into it and it has some wild complications but in a period of upheaval, I find the story inspirational yet complicated.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2010, 06:44:10 AM by Mike Sweeney »

Adam Clayman

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Re: Of Apologies and Addiction
« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2010, 09:47:15 AM »
There was a Dr. Slutzky who use to be head, or part of the Board of Health in Chicago. He also had a most beautiful daughter.

That could answer two of the threads mysteries.

Sadly, we'll never be able to answer the third.
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

David Sneddon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Of Apologies and Addiction
« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2010, 10:02:17 AM »

How the heck would you know? What are the credentials of the author? Pot shot artist? This thread is nothing more than yet another thinly veiled racist attack on Tiger IMO. Arnie cheated. Why don't you write about that for awhile.
[/quote]

If you'd bothered to read the "IMHO", it was my opinion, which, I believe I'm entitled to have.   

As for 'veiled racist attack', sorry that card won't play, but it is your opinion and you are entitled to it.

Give my love to Mary and bury me in Dornoch

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Of Apologies and Addiction
« Reply #18 on: March 03, 2010, 11:17:19 AM »
  Apologizing and making amends/working on character defects are two different things. I think the media wanted the apology;they got it. Tiger's amends are of a personal nature and are based on his actions not his words. They will happen over time. His statement that Buddhism calls him to be a " better man" is consistent with the 6th and 7th steps of the twelve step program. The critical element is that his higher power removes those defects;not him ! That requires developing a spiritual relationship with that power based on humility; no room for narcissism in that relationship.
AKA Mayday

Anthony Gray

Re: Of Apologies and Addiction
« Reply #19 on: March 03, 2010, 11:37:46 AM »


  If someone is the opposite of a narcissis he can still be imperfect. Moses was the humblest man alive but also a murderer. He was also married to black woman. I love drivable par 4's.

  Anthony


PCCraig

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Re: Of Apologies and Addiction
« Reply #20 on: March 03, 2010, 12:03:35 PM »


  If someone is the opposite of a narcissis he can still be imperfect. Moses was the humblest man alive but also a murderer. He was also married to black woman. I love drivable par 4's.

  Anthony



Please stop posting. You're not funny or cute in the least bit.
H.P.S.

Anthony Gray

Re: Of Apologies and Addiction
« Reply #21 on: March 03, 2010, 12:14:59 PM »


  If someone is the opposite of a narcissis he can still be imperfect. Moses was the humblest man alive but also a murderer. He was also married to black woman. I love drivable par 4's.

  Anthony




 
Please stop posting. You're not funny or cute in the least bit.


  Pat,

  Get back to work.

  Anthony

« Last Edit: March 03, 2010, 12:23:04 PM by Anthony Gray »

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Of Apologies and Addiction
« Reply #22 on: March 03, 2010, 12:36:30 PM »


  If someone is the opposite of a narcissis he can still be imperfect. Moses was the humblest man alive but also a murderer. He was also married to black woman. I love drivable par 4's.

  Anthony




 
Please stop posting. You're not funny or cute in the least bit.


  Pat,

  Get back to work.

  Anthony



Post deleted as I caught myself trying to reason with the village idiot.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2010, 12:39:31 PM by Pat Craig »
H.P.S.

Anthony Gray

Re: Of Apologies and Addiction
« Reply #23 on: March 03, 2010, 12:45:05 PM »


  If someone is the opposite of a narcissis he can still be imperfect. Moses was the humblest man alive but also a murderer. He was also married to black woman. I love drivable par 4's.

  Anthony




 
Please stop posting. You're not funny or cute in the least bit.


  Pat,

  Get back to work.

  Anthony



Post deleted as I caught myself trying to reason with the village idiot.


  Get back to work Pat.

  Anthony


Jed Peters

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Re: Of Apologies and Addiction
« Reply #24 on: March 03, 2010, 12:55:03 PM »
  Apologizing and making amends/working on character defects are two different things.

1. Apologizing and making amends are two totally different things as well.
2. Working on one's character defects is akin to polishing a turd. You can polish it all you want but it's still a turd.

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