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Gary Slatter

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Old Course tees
« on: March 01, 2010, 11:34:02 AM »
I'm on an island and don't have Scott Macpherson's great book about the Old Course.  How much different would the t-shots be from within a few club lengths of the previous cups compared to the tees as they are now?  I was wondering about the 11th hole, how different the shot would be, almost uphill.   And other holes, like the 8th?   13th  14th  17th?   
Gary Slatter
gary.slatter@raffles.com

Adrian_Stiff

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Re: Old Course tees
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2010, 12:40:51 PM »
Gary I think a lot of the daily tees are just about even with the previous green.
A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

Tom_Doak

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Re: Old Course tees
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2010, 01:25:50 PM »
Gary:

The tee you are thinking about on #11 (the elevated tee to the left) is only used to reduce the wear and tear on the main tee, which is just off the tenth green and level with it.  That's the original version of the Eden hole, slightly uphill to the green, with fairway all the way from your tee peg to the hole.

Gary Slatter

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Re: Old Course tees
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2010, 02:46:31 PM »
Tom, you are right as usual.  In the 2.5 years there I never got to hit from the lower tee on 11.  Not once, at least never on a Thursday!
Gary Slatter
gary.slatter@raffles.com

Scott Macpherson

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Re: Old Course tees
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2010, 03:48:59 PM »
HI Gary,

Thanks for your kind words about my book.

As regards your question, I always think it is important to remember that separate teeing grounds were not introduced until 1875. Prior to then players just teed up their ball on mounds of sand various distances (from 1-12 club lengths) from the previous hole.

So as regards the 11th, if it was the year 1845 and you went to play the 11th hole (with your feathery), you may have found you were teeing your ball from a position much further to the right than the current 'Championship' tee. So the angle could have been reasonably significantly different, but as Tom mentioned, the elevation would not have been much different (still an uphill shot).

As regards tee shots from the other holes;

13, 14 and 17 have been affected by the new tees. To a large degree this happened when it was decided the right-hand course would become the championship course and these tees were extended back. But the positioning of new bunkers has also impacted the on the tee-shot experience since they use to tee up right next to the old holes. The 14th is an interesting example . In 1875, to avoid the 'beardies' they would have tee up on the green, and had to play either left (down the hole we know as the 5th) or right onto the 14th fairway. The right hand line was a dangerous shot because it was towards the wall (though the wall was not O.B. until 1911). Nowadays, there is only one line off the tee and it is away from the O.B. Wall. So some have argued that the current tee shot is less interesting and challenging that it has been at previous times in the holes history.

Hope that helps.


Scott

PS- for further reading and plans, see pages 90-91 and 140 of my book

Gary Slatter

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Re: Old Course tees
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2010, 04:04:41 PM »
Scott, thanks for the information.  Every time that I played the OC with the regulars they pointed out the "changes" that they have noticed over the years.  One day the pin was front left on 16 and they said it had never been there before. It was a superb spot.

The new tee on 17 looks interesting - I'm sure the rough to the left of the fairway was not always so difficult.  Do you think a pro will bring a tee shot in over the hotel to the front of the green?  with the right wind it might be possible.

Your book is superb and unfortunately we shipped it to Canada instead of to Canouan.  A combo of your book and Richard's Experience book helped pass some of the long evenings in St Andrews.

Hope you got paid finally!
Gary Slatter
gary.slatter@raffles.com

Bill_McBride

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Re: Old Course tees
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2010, 07:03:48 PM »
Scott, thanks for the information.  Every time that I played the OC with the regulars they pointed out the "changes" that they have noticed over the years.  One day the pin was front left on 16 and they said it had never been there before. It was a superb spot.


Was that pin right behind Wig Bunker?  You'd think it would be there a lot. 
An old caddy at the Old Course told me #16 is one of the few greens with much fall to the rear.  That would make that hole location even more diabolical.

Anthony Gray

Re: Old Course tees
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2010, 10:00:20 AM »


  I would say that the 8th would be the most different/interesting. The first time I played TOC I saw my 2nd at the 2nd drift in the the wind and hit a player on the third tee in the buttocks. I thought man these tees are close the the greens.

  Tony Slice


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