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Scott Warren

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Praia d'el Rey - nr. Obidos, Portugal - course tour
« on: March 01, 2010, 03:41:15 PM »
I played Praia d'el Rey last weekend while visiting Portugal. I'd been looking forward to playing it for a long time and I wasn't at all disappointed.

It has some weaknesses, and many people will immediately point to the housing, but I think its positives far outweight the negatives, and of the housing, I'd say it only becomes overbearing on a few holes (2, 10, 12 - which incidentally are all very strong holes, which helps to overcome the jarring of all that concrete).

The greens are a fantastic set, heaps of internal movement and some great sites, with a few strong constant slopes to add variety. I really liked the fact the man-made movement didn't fight with the natural slope and shape of the land. The shapes might not have

been 100% natural, but they fit the land really well. I also noticed that quite a few are also extremely narrow, generally on the shorter holes.

From the tee, almost all of the two- and three-shotters made you think about lateral placement (with a few "go for it over a major landform" moments), but the impediment to a poorly-placed shot changes: a longer approach, an awkward angle across severe green
slopes, a pine tree that forces you to hit a cut from a hook lie, blindness - you don't find yourself thinking "I've answered this question/hit this shot already".

If there was a point of sameness it would be that eight of the greens are raised above the approach area, but there is enough variety in the other features to overcome that.

Below: Looking along the rolling seaside stretch of 13-16


Some of the geometric bunkering seemed at odds with the natural, rolling, wild site. I allowed myself to fantasise and "see" some
Barnbougle Dunes-style traps on a few holes and I reckon it would be preferable to so many perfect circles of sand.

The routing was another high-point, in my opinion, two side-by-side clockwise laps that expose to to the wind from every angle,
albeit with a couple of stretches where your bearing doesn't change (4-7 and 13-15). It also took you in and out of the pine forest and the open dunes several times, also giving you that glimpse of the ocean you came to see on both nines.

But in doing that, and in taking advantage of that stretch along the beach in the middle of the back nine, Cabell Robinson ended
up with the 15th green a very long way from the house - and the result is three stern holes to finish: My last three approaches
were 5i, 4i and 4i and all followed well-struck drives.

It also seemed to me that as you moved inland, the architectural merit also peaked, as if to overcome the lack of thrill as you
left the seaside.

Hole-by hole
The 1st is a 360m/357m par four that doglegs left just sharply enough to the left that the effective width of the fairway is
pretty massive. What adds some interest is the semi-blind drive and a whole world of pain if you miss the green right. A lot can
go wrong early in the day here!



The houses probably encroach worst of all at the 463m/432m par five 2nd. But you're willing to overlook it because it's a cracking
hole. The brave drive over the bunkers inside the dogleg give you hope of getting home in two, but the steep slope in front of the
green means you'll need to fly it most of the way there.




The 177m/142m 3rd is the first of the par threes. A wicked green saves it from complete mediocrity, but it's still not one of the
better one-shotters you'll ever play.


The 4th may be the best hole on the course. Driveable at 304m from the tips and 274m/286m from the more mortal men's tees, it's dominated by the massive natural blow-out bunker that flanks the left. The further you hit your drive, the more you need to hug it
to get the plum angle in to the green, which is both steeply angled and narrow, with a few really ugly spots if you miss by as
little as a few metres. In concert with the modest length, that's probably fair.




Natural undulations rule the 441m/423m 5th. It's the interest this hole presents that sums up why you don't feel an ounce of
disappointment as you track inland. There are houses and football pitches nearby, but they are pretty well-hidden. Compared to
other housing estate courses, I maintain that Praia d'el Rey is one that values the golf as well as is possible when housing has
to be a factor. Just look later in the round at how much unobstructed seafront the course was given.




We're well and truly back in the pine forest at the 382m/360m 6th, which bends smoothly to the right, with a drive to the outside of the dogleg in position A1. If you try to sneak down the inside to shorten the journey, you face finishing o] a hook lie with a couple of pines forcing you to shape a cut for any hope of hitting the green. This is another amazingly steep green.





There are several really tight shots at Praia d'el Rey, and the drive at the 492m/489m 7th is definitely one, but for the next two shots, the aim is to hug the left for an unobstructed look at the green, set into a right-to-left hillside and protected right by bunkers from which a downhill escape to a green running away from you holds little joy.




There are many holes that attempt to rip-off the general vibe of #16 at ANGC, but none that do it as well, IMO, as the
174m/165m/113m 8th here. I like the fact that it's a three-quarter to full-club drop shot with watter guarding the front of the
green in case you overestimate how far you're hitting it, but get too safe and the putt back down the slope, or across it, is a
knee-knocker. It also combines a range of tee distances and approach angles, meaking for four or five holes within the hole depending where you tee it up.



The 393m/380m 9th is perhaps another tight drive, but that doesn't diminish the need to place it perfectly. A drive guided down
the safer, wider left leaves an entirely blind approach, while one that hugs the right has a clear view of the reasonably sedate
green.




From the 10th tee, elevated about 20m above the fairway of this 460m/456m three-shotter, the view down to the Atlantic is expansive, and you feel as though you can smash that first drive of the back nine to within approach range. You may well do that, but even if you do, the green is set at 45 degrees and guarded short by a pond, so it's still some feat to get it on the putting surface from even 180m out. and if you try to hard to belt that drive, there is OOB left and a wide area to the right that, while
being fairway, leaves you totally blind with water loitering in the lay-up zone. A really good half-par hole, where 4 and 7 seem not just possible, but likely. If laying up, it pays to hug the left.




The 11th is a great hole, a 183m/165m one-shotter up a slope to a skyline green that is steeper than it seems from the tee. Of the three groups I watched play the hole, only one player got his ball to the green. I had to include a pic of a house behind the tee. Truly unique!




The houses and hotel return at the 440m/439m par five 12th, encroaching on both sides of the fairway. In fact, the course is today a par 73 because this hole became dangerous when the houses appeared and balls started raining down on them from this tee, so now the tee is 30m or so further back, rpoviding respite for the houses, but placing the Marriott in range for a violent snap hook! As with the 2nd, the houses to pale a bit because of what a gret hole this is, doglegging left, with a drive down that side - flirting with OOB - providing both a distance benefit and the best line in. The elevated tee means this is a genuine on-in-two chance for most golfers if they choose the right tees.




The flat, beachside 13th is 300m from the tips, but 285m/256m from the tees most golfers will play. It has a wicked, narrow, front-to-back sloping green that sees to it that driving the green is no guarantee of a birdie. Every golfer loves an eagle/birdie chance, and I think it was clever of Robinson to put this hole on perhaps the most memorable patch of dirt on the property. Into the wind, you'll have to consider if you can carry the RHS fairway traps, but otherwise this is your chance to create a story to tell your mates after the round.




The 150m/146m 14th continues north along the waterfront. It has one of the most testing geens on the course, with slopes on and around the green to either feed the ball close or guide it into a bunker. It's somewhat too similar to the 3rd in my view, but that green is a lot of fun nonetheless, and the dilapidated huts between the green and the sea make for a great photo op.


Our final hole running cheek-to-cheek with the breaking waves is the 375m/369m 15th, the driving zone is tight - beach left, bunkers right - but your reward for threading the needle is a steep dune 200m from the back tee that will reduce your approach to a mere wedge, while from atop the dune it's a mid-iron to a green that breaks significantly more than it might appear to, perhaps taking advantage of its subtlety and soft breaks in comparison with what you have just played.




Turning for home, the 390m/383m 16th calls for a drive down the left, lenghtening the hole but improving the angle. The second is uphill to a vicious skyline green that feeds the ball away on all sides and features a main dancefloor with a small raised tier at the back. Plenty of natural sand, but the only hole at Praia d'el Rey without a formal bunker. Nor does it need one. A brilliant hole.




A mammoth 570m from the tips, the 17th is played at 523m/485m by most, but is still a brute at that, hooking left and climbing the hill to a false-fronted and very small green set into a steep dune, it's three full shots with what seems an unforgivingly small target. The temptation is to hug the left to shorten the journey, but thick native scrub and sand dunes await there, and fromanything less that two perfect lies once you're off the tee, a par will be nigh on impossible. The first pic is from the tips, with the group in front standing on the normal men's tees.




The 395m/372m home hole brings you back into the pine. It doglegs right, but the golfer trying to cut the distance by playing down the right risks trees blocking his path. The left-hand fairway bunker needs to be flirted with to get the optimum angle into the
green, that while flattish itself, sits behind a steep rise that will funnel your ball away should you fail to select enough club.



Pria d'el Rey has some flaws, for sure, but I defy any golfer to walk away without having thoroughly enjoyed the four hours. It's well worth the trip, and with advance bookings with green fee websites getting you a start in summer for 65-70 euros (rack rate is about 120 in summer), the value is unusually good for European resort golf, especially resort golf worth playing.

On top of that, Obidos and Sintra are two of the most enjoyable places I have visited in the world, and Lisbon is a very fun little city worthy of two or three days of your time as well.

Oitavos Dunes (which I was prevented from playing by a hurricane that arrived from madeira!), Troia, Penha Longa and Golden Eagle are the other top established courses in the region and Bom Sucesso, which has recently opened, and Royal Obidos next door to it (under construction) will add even more to the region's credentials as a destination where golf, culture and weather unite and at a lower price than other Euro destinations.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2010, 05:19:15 PM by Scott Warren »

Emil Weber

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Re: Praia d'el Rey - nr. Obidos, Portugal - course tour
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2010, 03:48:33 PM »
Thanks for the tour, Scott. The course looks very good, a lot better than I expected.

Not a fan of the 8th hole and all the houses, but 4 looks like a great hole indeed.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2010, 02:52:21 PM by Emil Weber »

Scott Warren

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Re: Praia d'el Rey - nr. Obidos, Portugal - course tour
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2010, 05:09:16 PM »
Back nine added.

Sean_A

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Re: Praia d'el Rey - nr. Obidos, Portugal - course tour
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2010, 05:23:39 PM »
Scott

Thanks for the tour.  It doesn't look as though much has changed except for the green fees!  I am surprised you didn't mention much how tight this course is.  I wonder, have been trees been cut back and fairways widened?  This doesn't appear to be the case. 

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

John Mayhugh

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Re: Praia d'el Rey - nr. Obidos, Portugal - course tour
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2010, 05:32:01 PM »
Scott,
Thanks for posting your tour.  I like the looks of a lot of the holes, especially the 4th, 11th, & 14th.  Some really nice green sites. 

Any idea what the abandonded buildings to the left of the 14th used to be?  Just housing?

Bummer about Oitavos Dunes. 

Scott Warren

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Re: Praia d'el Rey - nr. Obidos, Portugal - course tour
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2010, 05:52:10 PM »
Sean,

I saw your threads today from '06 and '08 that mentioned the tightness. To be honest, I didn't really notice it that much. 5, 6, 7, 9 and 15 I guess you could make an argument for being "tight", but of them I only see 7 and 9 as possibly excessive in their tightness.

Looking at your pics, it seems little housing has been added, perhaps only significantly on the 2nd?

John,

I think they may just be old fishing huts. They are well and truly dilapidated.

I was pretty bummed about Oitavos. We went to Cascais anyway for a look around and I stuck my head into Oitavos Dunes just to punish myself and see what I was missing. What I saw looked brilliant, but it really wasn't the weather for golf, even if you're as nuts as I am!

I was really lucky the previous day to get four glorious hours at PdR with a gentle breeze and sunshine.

This pic was taken about 500m from the 18th green at Oitavos Dunes as I would have been playing. Waves were hitting the rocks and landing  - I kid you not - 50-70m onshore. The pic doesn't really do it justice, winds were clocked at up to 87mph (150km/h for the metric fans).




Steve Okula

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Re: Praia d'el Rey - nr. Obidos, Portugal - course tour
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2010, 01:11:51 AM »
Scott,

I enjoy seeing Cabell Robinson get the respect he so richly deserves. Thanks.
The small wheel turns by the fire and rod,
the big wheel turns by the grace of God.

Martin Toal

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Re: Praia d'el Rey - nr. Obidos, Portugal - course tour
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2010, 02:34:45 AM »
Good course, and gets the wind as you would expect. Mix of holes with a links feel and others with more of a pine forest feel.

Nice Marriott hotel nearby.

Mark Chaplin

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Re: Praia d'el Rey - nr. Obidos, Portugal - course tour
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2010, 02:53:48 AM »
Sean - with Scott stating 304m uphill was drivable, he must have had a small flask of Kummel with him. To be fair we've played a few rounds together and he last missed a fairway in June so doesn't notice tight!

Scott - what did they charge in the winter?
Cave Nil Vino

Sean_A

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Re: Praia d'el Rey - nr. Obidos, Portugal - course tour
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2010, 04:33:52 AM »
Sean - with Scott stating 304m uphill was drivable, he must have had a small flask of Kummel with him. To be fair we've played a few rounds together and he last missed a fairway in June so doesn't notice tight!

Scott - what did they charge in the winter?

Mark

That was my only beef with the 4th, it should be a bit shorter if they want guys to go after that green.  Mind you, they may not want people tramping about in the dunes - they are quite fragile in this area. 

Scott

I found several holes where it should have made a difference which side of the green one was approaching from, but trees, rough and sometimes bunkering blocked out the best line rather than guarded it.  Honestly, the course is good, but I think PdR is a bit of a lost opportunity.  This place should be world class - the site is that good.  Still, assuming prices don't continue to more than creep its worth a go if in the area.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Scott Warren

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Re: Praia d'el Rey - nr. Obidos, Portugal - course tour
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2010, 05:21:18 AM »
Sean - with Scott stating 304m uphill was drivable, he must have had a small flask of Kummel with him. To be fair we've played a few rounds together and he last missed a fairway in June so doesn't notice tight!

Scott - what did they charge in the winter?

I paid e75, but that was just by ringing the club and booking. The member I played with (Brit with a home there) said the greenfee websites often have rates cheaper than that in summer. he was suggesting 65 was possible if you book in advance. The rack rate in summer is 125 or so.

I played a bit forward due to it being soggy. It was 274m as I played it. Still too far to drive if it's not fast and firm.

That's a fair suggestion re: not noticing tight. I hit 11/14 fairways there and the others I missed by feet, so it is possible I did overlook some bad tightness as a result of it not affecting me.

Kevin Pallier

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Re: Praia d'el Rey - nr. Obidos, Portugal - course tour
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2010, 08:18:08 PM »
Scott

Thanks for the tour. It has a sort of St. Michael's look about it only more rugged ? (save for the housing of course)

Unfortunate about Oitavos Dunes - was looking forward to hearing your thoughts re: it

Scott Warren

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Re: Praia d'el Rey - nr. Obidos, Portugal - course tour
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2010, 03:45:58 AM »
Much more rugged, and with much better greens.

But I guess kinds like St Mick's in that it moves between forest/bush and seaside a few times during the round.

Michael Taylor

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Re: Praia d'el Rey - nr. Obidos, Portugal - course tour
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2010, 11:54:09 PM »
Thanks for the tour Scott. Your mammoth effort is appreciated.  :)

For the 6th hole, do you think the size of the green is excessively small? It seems like it should be bigger considering the length of the hole.


What is that guy doing on the 8th hole? Is that the tee box for 9?

On the 10th hole, how far away is the bunker on the left, and the trees on the right near the stake?

And I must say I do enjoy the reverse tiered green on 13. What are your thoughts on it?

Pup


Scott Warren

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Re: Praia d'el Rey - nr. Obidos, Portugal - course tour
« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2010, 12:24:04 AM »
For the 6th hole, do you think the size of the green is excessively small? It seems like it should be bigger considering the length of the hole.

It was pretty small, but not excessive, I wouldn't say. The variety of the greens was one of the course's biggest strengths, so I guess in isolation maybe you could make a case that it could have been a bit bigger, but in the larger scheme, it offered something unique.

The most any competent golfer playing from suitable tees should be hitting in there is a mid iron, though, so it's not so small for the shot that will be hit to it.

Quote
What is that guy doing on the 8th hole? Is that the tee box for 9?

That's my playing partner standing on the forward tee.

Quote
On the 10th hole, how far away is the bunker on the left, and the trees on the right near the stake?

About 270m from the tips from memory, 240ish from the forward men's tees. It was about 200m home from there, so that makes sense. Given the raised tee, at a pretty good driving distance.

Quote
And I must say I do enjoy the reverse tiered green on 13. What are your thoughts on it?

Loved it. On a hole that short, I think it's perfect. The pic flattens it, too. There are pins on there where there are putts you'd need amazing imagination and skill to match if you wanted to two-putt.

Paul Nash

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Re: Praia d'el Rey - nr. Obidos, Portugal - course tour
« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2010, 07:57:26 AM »
Scott - I agree about 4. I thought those few holes on the front 9 would be poor but I enjoyed them all and I thought 4 was stunning, especially the big natural bunker/scrub on the left of the green and how it made a steep amitheatre to that side of the green

Gary Slatter

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Re: Praia d'el Rey - nr. Obidos, Portugal - course tour
« Reply #16 on: March 12, 2010, 08:09:55 AM »
Why do we worry so much about housing, if the hole is a good hole, fine it's good. 
What defines housing that ruins golf holes?  the houses on Dornoch are never mentioned nor should they.
The houses on the Golf Course at Doral are fine, the course is rubbish anyway and sometimes the houses supply a good rebound shot.
 ::)
Gary Slatter
gary.slatter@raffles.com

Michael Taylor

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Re: Praia d'el Rey - nr. Obidos, Portugal - course tour
« Reply #17 on: March 12, 2010, 08:20:31 AM »
Or the houses along the right of 18 TOC.

 ;D


Mark Saltzman

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Re: Praia d'el Rey - nr. Obidos, Portugal - course tour
« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2012, 10:14:51 AM »
Scott, thanks for this tour.  Looks like there are several exceptional holes on the property.

Amazing how distinct are the transitions from Dunes to Parkland holes.  Not too many courses have such distinct transitions (Friar's Head I'm told, Spyglass, Crystal Downs to some extent, Beacon Hall (near Toronto)).  This transition is not for all, but I like it, especially if that is what the land calls for.

Seems like the course may get easier on repeat plays.  Lots of semi-blindness from the tee and corridors that are wider than is obvious from the tee.

Bunkering seems rather nondescript in both shape and placement.  Bunkers seem to have been used as a crutch in a few places, and I would have no problem with their removal.

And holy s***, I want to see this one in person!!...


The 4th may be the best hole on the course. Driveable at 304m from the tips and 274m/286m from the more mortal men's tees, it's dominated by the massive natural blow-out bunker that flanks the left. The further you hit your drive, the more you need to hug it
to get the plum angle in to the green, which is both steeply angled and narrow, with a few really ugly spots if you miss by as
little as a few metres. In concert with the modest length, that's probably fair.




Scott Warren

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Re: Praia d'el Rey - nr. Obidos, Portugal - course tour
« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2012, 03:21:46 AM »
It has enough significant pluses to be well worth a game if in the area, and Obidos is somewhere well worth seeing.

Plus, Portugal is one of the few true bargain destinations remaining in Europe, especially western Europe.

The transitions are done well, not least of all because holes like 4 and 17, which take you away from the coast, are top quality holes.