[Anthony Gray]

  Mike Young's blog on Paul Daley's book Golf Course Architecture A World Wide Perspective mentions in Bernard Darwins book about courses in the British Isles there is not one mention of the architects responsible for these great courses.

  What does this all mean?

  When did recognition to the architect begin?

  ARG

 

[Ally Mcintosh]

Anthony,

People are still very poor in Britain and Ireland at recognising the architect... Not a patch on the knowledge of golfers in the states...

Given the history, you'd think it should be the other way around... but it isn't

[Jim_Kennedy]

Anthony,
The 'first' generation of architect's weren't mentioned much in publications or periodicals about golf courses. The 'second' generation of architect's, the ones that built over the carcasses of these rudimentary first generation courses and built many of the courses we still 'love', were mentioned much more frequently. It seems there was a lapse when courses were lost to the depression and WW2, but interest picked up after that, especially when the game made its way to TV. When the 'celebrity' architects (Pros as archies) were in vogue you were sure to know about them, and finally, the move back to more simple, less flashy courses that seem more in keeping with the game's origins produced another rise in the profile of professional architects.

    

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Jim, As someone who occasionally tries to investigate UK club histories in the course of researching for their centenary books or whatever, I can tell you that it is an incredibly frustrating business. As an example, there are precious few useful leads in the minutes of The Alwoodley Golf Club. MacKenzie was the first Hon Secretary as well as course designer but even his committee notes do not record the material and instances we need as historians.

So often we are told that Sandy Herd, for example, was approached. We don't whether he accepted the offer, and there is nothing in the financial accounts to say that he he did or did not.

But, then, many of these people turned up for a few hours, made a few suggestions, and possibly earned a guinea or two. Once again there is no mention of whether the suggestions were received or acted upon. The archives of British golf clubs are one of the most frustrating sources of the sort of information members of GCA would like to know.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Mark,
That sounds frustrating.

It's not a great stretch of the imagination to chalk it up to class distinctions, tradesmen in the back door please. Here, many clubs highlighted the green chairman/committee or club president as the 'force' behind the construction, with no mention of who actually laid out and/or performed the work.

So much of the info as to who was truly involved comes from the old newspaper articles, magazines, periodicals, etc., and not from the clubs themselves. Some of the fellows on here really know how to mine that resource for all it's worth, but I don't think that the guy who turned up for a few hours and made some suggestions is any easier for a MacWood or a Bausch, et al, to find here, either.

 

[Tom_Doak]

  Mike Young's blog on Paul Daley's book Golf Course Architecture A World Wide Perspective mentions in Bernard Darwins book about courses in the British Isles there is not one mention of the architects responsible for these great courses.

  What does this all mean?

  When did recognition to the architect begin?

  ARG

Actually, I don't think Mike has his facts straight, there.  My recollection is that Mr. Colt and Mr. Fowler and Old Tom Morris are mentioned in several places in the book ... though certainly not to the degree the architect's name is trumpeted now.  In fact, I feel certain that Darwin was the first golf writer to recognize and promote the work of the better architects.  It was his columns, more than anything else, that made Woking and its amateur architects famous, for example.

[Adam Lawrence]

His Woking piece certainly refers extensively to Stuart Paton and his work there. I also recall a large number of 'Mr Colt' references.

[Tom MacWood]

There are numerous mentions of numerous architects in the first version of the book, and even more in the second edition.

TD is correct about Darwin really going out of his way to publicize architects, but even before him Hutchinson and others were recognizing architects throughout the 1890s.

[Anthony Gray]

  Darwin's book Golf Courses of the British Isles was the book talked about. His other were hot mentioned. The Blog also states that while in the service Pete Dye played Pinehurst several times without  knowing of Donald Ross.

  Anthony

 

[Neil_Crafter]

Sorry Anthony but your premise is incorrect I'm afraid. A look for Colt in the index reveals he is mentioned by Darwin (a couple of times for his golfing prowess) and on p11 refers to Colt's work at Sunningdale. On the same page Darwin states that Walton Heath is the work of Mr Herbert Fowler. And there are more. Darwin, as Tom D has said, was very particular to make sure he gave credit to the architect, and was very rarely in error in this respect. The 1925 second edition has even more credits for architects, including Mackenzie.
Neil

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