[Richard Phinney]

My question for Canadians is, if the international game was top dog, what were folks doing during 1970-1976 and in general once the more modern age of Olympic hockey started - more or less with the Soviets hitting the stage and the end of the top amateur club in Canada representing them in the Olympics?  How did this current all consuming obsession with international hockey get started?  I realize it was a huge wake up call when Team Canada just scrapped by the Soviets in the Summit Series.  Is this crazy international obsession all about the '72 series and trying to prove Canada is the best? 

Yes, that's exactly what it is. From Canadians' point of view, the introduction of the NHL into the Olympics in 1998 has created the first level playing field, though the quality of play -  all the teams are thrown together at the last minute - is not that great.  After the shocker of 1972 (when Bobby Clarke had to break the best Russian scorer's leg to ensure a nailbiting victory) Canadians dreamt up all sorts of challenge matches and tournaments to prove that Canadian hockey players were intrinsically better.  Most of these were patently unfair to the Europeans (and in some cases the Americans) since games were played on smaller NHL rinks in North America. Though the hockey was often sublime the results were unsatisfactory (to Canadians) and sometimes humiliating.  Until the Soviet Union disintegrated there was always the excuse that the Soviet teams played together constantly and had an advantage (despite the fact all their games were away from home!).  And though pros started trickling into the World Championships many of the best players couldn't (and still can't) compete due to the Stanley Cup so this wasn't a solution.  (This frustration also gave rise to the phenomenon which is the World Junior Hockey Championship, an event ignored everywhere but in Canada, where it has become national obsession over the Christmas period.)

So the Olympics, despite their imperfections and the rather crapshoot nature of the results (a hot goalie can absolutely make the difference between success and failure)  is the level playing field.  And if we can win a couple more gold medals then that glorious trauma of 1972 - which still marks any real hockey fan over the age of 45 - will seem more and more like a just result, and not a sign that the Russions were, in fact, rather a little better than us at our own game.

[Sean_A]

My question for Canadians is, if the international game was top dog, what were folks doing during 1970-1976 and in general once the more modern age of Olympic hockey started - more or less with the Soviets hitting the stage and the end of the top amateur club in Canada representing them in the Olympics?  How did this current all consuming obsession with international hockey get started?  I realize it was a huge wake up call when Team Canada just scrapped by the Soviets in the Summit Series.  Is this crazy international obsession all about the '72 series and trying to prove Canada is the best? 

Yes, that's exactly what it is. From Canadians' point of view, the introduction of the NHL into the Olympics in 1998 has created the first level playing field, though the quality of play -  all the teams are thrown together at the last minute - is not that great.  After the shocker of 1972 (when Bobby Clarke had to break the best Russian scorer's leg to ensure a nailbiting victory) Canadians dreamt up all sorts of challenge matches and tournaments to prove that Canadian hockey players were intrinsically better.  Most of these were patently unfair to the Europeans (and in some cases the Americans) since games were played on smaller NHL rinks in North America. Though the hockey was often sublime the results were unsatisfactory (to Canadians) and sometimes humiliating.  Until the Soviet Union disintegrated there was always the excuse that the Soviet teams played together constantly and had an advantage (despite the fact all their games were away from home!).  And though pros started trickling into the World Championships many of the best players couldn't (and still can't) compete due to the Stanley Cup so this wasn't a solution.  (This frustration also gave rise to the phenomenon which is the World Junior Hockey Championship, an event ignored everywhere but in Canada, where it has become national obsession over the Christmas period.)

So the Olympics, despite their imperfections and the rather crapshoot nature of the results (a hot goalie can absolutely make the difference between success and failure)  is the level playing field.  And if we can win a couple more gold medals then that glorious trauma of 1972 - which still marks any real hockey fan over the age of 45 - will seem more and more like a just result, and not a sign that the Russions were, in fact, rather a little better than us at our own game.

Richard

Yes, there are some comps which I, and I think a great many hard core fans could care less about; Canada Cup and World Championship for sure.  I doesn't matter a hooey to me who is world champion - it means so little.  The Os are a bit different though, but not of the same level as the Stanley Cup imo. 

I know Canada constantly whinged about international hockey being unfair and to be honest, they always seemed to look silly whinging and they definitely hurt their program by not competing - truly a diappointing period for Canadian hockey.  That '72 series was a wonder to watch as a kid and to a large degree, I credit it with making me very skeptical of the media.  I found it unbelievable that the Russians could hang and indeed, from where I sat, they were better, but suffered a bit due to HOSTILE crowds and some VERY sketchy refs.  I knew right then I wanted the damn pinkos in the NHL.  Their style of play was such a joy to watch.  Carrying play over the blue line with a trailing man was just crazy shit and their possession style drove the Canadians nuts.  Skate, pass and shoot - who would have thunk?  Well, to be truthful, that series changed hockey in the "known world" forever.  Sure, the goon stuff lumbered through for some time with the disgraceful Flyers (I hate that team to this day) leading the way, but the writing was on the wall. 

Do you reckon the international game in Canada has taken on extra importance since the lack of club teams making any real push for the Cup in god knows how many years?

Ciao

[Will MacEwen]

Do you reckon the international game in Canada has taken on extra importance since the lack of club teams making any real push for the Cup in god knows how many years?

Sean I don't think there is much of a connection.  Habs fans will take no joy in a Flames cup, vice versa, etc, etc.  We mostly only care about our own team's struggles.

As a spectator sport, hockey in Canada is way stronger than it was 20 years ago.  People go nuts for NHL, World Juniors and Olympics, and even the Worlds get more attention than they used to (they were in Halifax recently).  There has been lots of anticipation for these games because the performance, and philosophy, in Turin was so poor. 

We are probably like the Kiwis in rugby - this is the sport we are known for internationally, and it is a huge part of our identity.  This is the biggest international stage in hockey, so the focus and scrutiny is absolutely crazy.

The funny thing is most Canadian (and maybe American?) players would probably choose a Stanley Cup over a gold medal, but I don't doubt that they are fully engaged in this.  I expect that for someone like Rick Nash, who has spent his whole career in the futility of Columbus, he is charged to be playing some relevant hockey and feeling loads of pressure.

[Kalen Braley]

Since this is already off-topic.

Nice "classy" move on the part of the Canadian women boozing it up and lighting stoogies on the ice after the game last night.



http://www.nesn.com/2010/02/canadian-womens-hockey-celebration-draws-attention-from-ioc.html

[henrye]

Kalen, they're probably just enjoying the luxury of a good Canadian beer and some Cubans.   

[Kalen Braley]

Kalen, they're probably just enjoying the luxury of a good Canadian beer and some Cubans.   

Henry,

I don't think there is a bigger oxymoron that "good Canadian beer" 

And not to take anything away from them, but the womens hockey "tournament" was a farce at best.  There are two elite teams, the US and Canada....all the rest are a lllloooooonnnnggg ways away in terms of skill.  It'd be like putting the Lakers and Cavs in the NCAA tournie, we all know who'd be playing in the championship game.

They should have just let these two play for Gold and Silver in one game and draw straws amongst the rest of the teams for who gets the Bronze.

[Bill_Yates]

I WAS WRONG!!

It's for the love of the brewski!   

[jeffwarne]

Kalen, they're probably just enjoying the luxury of a good Canadian beer and some Cubans.   

Henry,



They should have just let these two play for Gold and Silver in one game and draw straws amongst the rest of the teams for who gets the Bronze.

Then there'd be more airtime for curling and ice dancing

[Kalen Braley]

Kalen, they're probably just enjoying the luxury of a good Canadian beer and some Cubans.   

Henry,



They should have just let these two play for Gold and Silver in one game and draw straws amongst the rest of the teams for who gets the Bronze.

Then there'd be more airtime for curling and ice dancing

Sigh....

You make a great point...I'd take a 9-1 womens hockeys game blowout anytime over that crappola!! 

[Tim Pitner]

To a point made here, our local college team, the University of Denver (currently ranked #1) has quite a few Canadians on its team. 

I'm disappointed the tournament wasn't played on the big ice and I'm surprised the commentators haven't made more of that issue--I guess it's irrelevant now.  It's somewhat like a Ryder Cup captain tweaking the course to suit his team but it probably conveys an even larger advantage (not to mention that the dimensions of an international ice sheet are set). 

It'd be fun to see a U.S.-Canada rematch for the gold, but I wouldn't count out a surprise by the Finns or Slovaks. 

[Will MacEwen]

To a point made here, our local college team, the University of Denver (currently ranked #1) has quite a few Canadians on its team. 

I'm disappointed the tournament wasn't played on the big ice and I'm surprised the commentators haven't made more of that issue--I guess it's irrelevant now.  It's somewhat like a Ryder Cup captain tweaking the course to suit his team but it probably conveys an even larger advantage (not to mention that the dimensions of an international ice sheet are set). 

It'd be fun to see a U.S.-Canada rematch for the gold, but I wouldn't count out a surprise by the Finns or Slovaks. 

I don't know if it is such an advantage anymore.  There isn't as much to choose from, stylistically, between the countries anymore.  Most of the players are NHLers, and obviously the coaches and management select and prepare for the smaller ice.

The original plan was to expand the ice, but it was too costly to engineer.  This was back in the day when they wanted to avoid cost overruns.

I like the Finns to win today.

[Tim Pitner]

Will,

It seems like the smaller ice negated the speed advantage of the Russians and allowed the Canadians to stack their team with big defensivemen who might not have been as effective on the larger ice. 

Obviously there were other factors in Canada's win over Russia, but it is interesting that Canada's first Olympic win over Russia in a long time came on the smaller ice. 

[Michael Rossi]

Will,

It seems like the smaller ice negated the speed advantage of the Russians and allowed the Canadians to stack their team with big defensivemen who might not have been as effective on the larger ice. 

Obviously there were other factors in Canada's win over Russia, but it is interesting that Canada's first Olympic win over Russia in a long time came on the smaller ice. 

Canada and Russia haven't faced each other in a long time.

[Tim Pitner]

Russia won the last two "world championships," I believe, beating Canada in the final at least one of those times.  

P.S. Russia also knocked out Canada in the quarterfinals in Turin 2006. 

[Michael Rossi]

Russia won the last two "world championships," I believe, beating Canada in the final at least one of those times.  

P.S. Russia also knocked out Canada in the quarterfinals in Turin 2006. 

Yes time in 06 Russia beat Canada in the 1/4's , the 2 teams have only faced off in Olympics a couple times. WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS is different than Olympics, completely different roster and eligible players for both squads.

[Tim Pitner]

It's interesting how things have changed from 2006.  In Turin, Canada went 3-2 in the prelims (including a loss to Switzerland) and got blanked by the Russians in the quarters 2-0.  The USA went 1-3-1 in the prelims (including a tie with Latvia!) and lost in the quarters to the Finns.  Russia beat the Swedes 5-0 in the prelims and then didn't medal, while Sweden won gold.  A youth movement has helped both Canada and the USA (and I'm guesing the NHL-sized ice and crowds don't hurt either). 

[Sean_A]

Guys, don't forget that USA is only ranked 5th and have done alright just to reach the semis.  They are really building toward later events.  Slovakia has done wonders to reach this far.  I bet they would kill to be linked with the oteh half of ....

Ciao

[Jud_T]

Guys, don't forget that USA is only ranked 5th and have done alright just to reach the semis.  They are really building toward later events.  Slovakia has done wonders to reach this far.  I bet they would kill to be linked with the oteh half of ....

Ciao

Sean,

How you like our boys now?

[Tim Pitner]

Crazy . . . In games involving the top teams, I can't ever recall seeing such flurries of goals as in the Canada-Russia game and now the USA-Finland game.  Good for Canada and the USA, bad for watching a competitive hockey game. 

[Gary Slatter]

Olympic hockey is great - the Swiss men's team was outstanding and they represented the best in "for love of the game"

Go Canada!  and the NHL sized rinks are helping the US and Canada, and the fact that most of the other teams are tired NHLers also helps North American chances. But is all this help enough?

[Bill_Yates]

6-Zip USA over Finland, Period 2.

Watch online  http://www.nbcolympics.com/video/assetid=2c92cff5-72ad-4d40-b2fd-a310958540d9.html

[Kalen Braley]

We can only hope the Canucks don't choke tonight and mess up the dream matchup on Sunday!!   

[Michael Rossi]

We can only hope the Canucks don't choke tonight and mess up the dream matchup on Sunday!!   

We are getting closer to the Sunday match up. Hope Canada hold on. Slovaks playing defensive.

[Jud_T]

We can only hope the Canucks don't choke tonight and mess up the dream matchup on Sunday!!  

We are getting closer to the Sunday match up. Hope Canada hold on. Slovaks playing defensive.

For the folks up north, how depressing is it going to be that not only are you economically dependant on a robbin hood administration with virtually no private sector experience south of the border and your golf season is only 5 months long, but the good 'ole U, S of A can school you at your national pastime as well?  

[henrye]

For the folks up north, how depressing is it going to be that not only are you economically dependant on a robbin hood administration with virtually no private sector experience south of the border and your golf season is only 5 months long, but the good 'ole U, S of A can school you at your national pastime as well?  

Jud.  You've got it all wrong.  We don't depend economically on our administration.  We rely on you guys to send us business, money & jobs through a well crafted Free Trade agreement.     But, after the hockey game, if we should be so kind as to "let the boss win at golf", we'll just mourn our losses for a few days and go back to choking on all our oil, clean water and other natural resources.  Oh, wait, I hear someone knocking on my door.  Turns out it's just some kind fellow telling me that I left a stack of cash & jewelry lying in the front of my unlocked car.  I told him not to worry.  That's where I always keep it. 

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