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TEPaul

Old fashioned cups and competitions....
« on: May 05, 2010, 11:14:06 PM »
I just came back from the Baily Cup, a 77 year old annual competition on the first Wednesday of May between Pine Valley, Huntingdon Valley, Merion and Gulph Mills. The competition was begun in 1933 and a year or so later prominent Merion member Frederick Baily was killed by lightening on the 6th hole at Merion during the competition and apparently Mrs Baily decided to give a cup and memorialize the competition in memory of Frederick Baily.

It is singles in the morning and foursome matches in the afternoon and a wonderful dinner following that is so traditional with remembrances and speeches etc. It rotates every year between the four participating clubs.

It is not as old as the Lesley Cup (now 105 years old) now between Pennsylvania, New York, Massachussets and Quebec (originally in 1905 between Philadelphia, New York and Boston) which is every bit the same old fashioned tradition and format as the Baily Cup.

Matter of fact, the format of the Lesley Cup apparently set the format of the Walker and Ryder Cups.

These kinds of Cups, competitions and traditions are just wonderful----eg just so old world and just so fundamentally the way golf and sportsmanship in it once was.

I am aware that there is an annual competition between Royal Montreal GC and Brookline that may go back to the 1890s or perhaps even the late 1880s.

These things are really wonderful to keep the old spirit of the game and competition in it going.

What else is like those two cups and competions that's going on out there all those years that is like the Lesley and Baily Cups?

Please tell me all about some of them and their histories. These kinds of things are such a glorious tradition in golf and for golf----they should be discussed, better know and perhaps more emulated in the future.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2010, 11:18:12 PM by TEPaul »

Bill Shotzbarger

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Re: Old fashioned cups and competitions....
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2010, 01:02:57 AM »
Tom,

I'm going to assume that it was played at Merion this year? I played the West course this afternoon, and on my way home via Golf House Rd I saw a bunch of gentlemen in blazers congregated on the patio.

(Ok, Golf House Road was a little out of my way but after playing the West how can you pass up driving by 14-18 of the East!)

And for the sake of relevance, my club hosts the Kerwin Cup each June. I'm not quite sure when it started but I would guess sometime in the 1940's. It's an invitational best ball of partners for the best players in the Philly/South Jersey area. If I'm not mistaken, Mr. Paul, you may know a thing or two about winning the Kerwin Cup?  ;)
« Last Edit: May 06, 2010, 01:44:01 AM by Bill Shotzbarger »

Kyle Harris

Re: Old fashioned cups and competitions....
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2010, 05:02:18 AM »
Bill:

Nice to see you're alive.

I'll throw the Lynnewood Hall Challenge Cup into the mix.

Dan Herrmann

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Re: Old fashioned cups and competitions....
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2010, 07:43:52 AM »
We started a new "Hanse Cup" event between French Creek and Applebrook a couple of years ago.  Nice to see that the traditional cup idea is still going strong. 

TEPaul

Re: Old fashioned cups and competitions....
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2010, 08:54:29 AM »
Bill and Kyle:

Yes, the Kerwin and Lynnewood Hall are old club invitational tournaments in the better ball of partners stroke play format. I don't know how old the Kerwin Cup is but I know the Lynnewood Hall is really old even though it was discontinued for a number of years and then restarted not that long ago.

There are a lot of great class A amateur tournaments around some of which have been going for a long time. They come in different formats from individual stroke play to better ball stroke play to individual and team match play. They are invitationals whose criteria includes earning invitations for competitive merit in other tournaments to straight invitationals.

Some of the most notable are The Anderson Memorial at Winged Foot, The Travis at GCGC, NGLA's National Singles Tournament, Seminole's Coleman, Pine Valley's Crump Cup and Merion's Hugh Wilson (that has been discontinued), the Sunnehanna and the Northeast Amateur. I think the last two count towards national ranking points.

The Baily Cup and Lesley Cup are a bit different as they are interclub or interstate competitions and cups. Then there are merit competitions between associations and regions like the Compher Cup (New Jersey State Golf Association against the Golf Association of Philadelphia (GAP) and the Mason Dixon Matches (The Mid-Atlantic Association against GAP).

Dan, I'm glad to see French Creek and Applebrook now have the Hanse Cup. The competitors sure don't have far to travel between those two clubs.  ;)

The top flight ladies have much of the same. The Griscom Cup just may be about the oldest continuous inter-state, inter-association annual competition in America. It is named for Frances Griscom of Merion who won the US Amateur in 1900. She was the daughter of Clement Griscom, the man who owned the original nine of Merion Cricket Club and the sister of Wilson Committee member, Rodman Griscom, who became Merion GC's first president when it took the vote to split with the Merion Cricket Club on that day that shall live in infamy----December 7, 1941.

Bill:

That's right----all the "jackets" you saw yesterday late afternoon as you drove up Golf House Rd were the Baily Cuppers of Merion, PV, HV and GMGC. Too bad you didn't run into those clubs' head professionals Nye, Clark, Connelly and Gilbert duking it out in a fist and knuckles match over on the West Course yesterday afternoon. They were all of the same opinion that Merion West may be the most interesting little golf course of under 6,000 yards there is. You should have stopped in; I would've bought you a drink or two, particularly seeing as I was breaking some rules anyway by smoking in the wrong place for which I was very politely flagged!  ;)


What are some others out there like these around the country or around the world?
« Last Edit: May 06, 2010, 09:08:21 AM by TEPaul »

Dale Jackson

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Re: Old fashioned cups and competitions....
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2010, 10:33:33 AM »
Tom, not an event of long standing but the four main states and province that make up the Pacific Northwest Golf Association (British Columbia, Washington, Oregon and Idaho annually compete for the PNGA Cup.  In fact, it is being contested right now. 

The format is 12 person teams - 2 senior women,  2 mid am women, 2 senior men, 2 master 40 men and 4 mid am men - playing match play in a Ryder Cup style.  Foursomes and four ball are played on Day 1 and singles on Day 2.

I've seen an architecture, something new, that has been in my mind for years and I am glad to see a man with A.V. Macan's ability to bring it out. - Gene Sarazen

TEPaul

Re: Old fashioned cups and competitions....
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2010, 10:52:04 AM »
Dale:

Did you know that the Ryder and Walker Cup formats were apparently taken from the Lesley Cup? Back then the Lesley Cuppers had a raging debate going on both at the Lesley Cup and in print in newspapers and magazines about the proper format in competitive golf. The purists demanded traditional foursome match play and the moderns demanded individual match play because they claimed hitting every other shot was stupid and not fun and rewarding enough.

So, just to quell the raging debate eventually the Lesley Cup Trustees voted to just do both and that became our format that was copied by the Walker and Ryder Cups.

Paul Carey

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Re: Old fashioned cups and competitions....
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2010, 11:02:56 AM »


It is singles in the morning and foursome matches in the afternoon and a wonderful dinner following that is so traditional with remembrances and speeches etc. It rotates every year between the four participating clubs.


TEPaul,

How does that format work with four clubs?  Is it a stroke play event?  Is it played at scratch?

Thanks,

Paul

Bob_Huntley

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Re: Old fashioned cups and competitions....
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2010, 11:38:57 AM »
Tom,

One of my favorites is the Royal Medal at the R&A first competed for in 1837. I was not there.

One of the mellifluous names that comes to life is Onesiphrous Tynndall Bruce of Falkirk, winner of the Queen Adelaide Medal in 1838. WIth a name like that he must have had a ferocious left when in school.


Bob
« Last Edit: May 06, 2010, 12:31:28 PM by Bob_Huntley »

Robert Emmons

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Re: Old fashioned cups and competitions....
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2010, 12:32:35 PM »
Tom,

How about the Liberty Bell. Piping,Creek,Meadowbrook...RHE

David Amarnek

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Re: Old fashioned cups and competitions....
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2010, 01:35:26 PM »
Tom,
We don't have quite the long history of competitions as compared to the East coast; however St. Louis has an interclub match held every year between teams from St. Louis CC, Old Warson CC, Bellerive CC and Westwood CC.  We rotate the sites among our clubs and this year (and for the first time ever!) Westwood will defend the cup and on our home turf.
We have best ball matches and there are also singles matches for the top players.
It's an amazing day of competition and cameraderie.

 

TEPaul

Re: Old fashioned cups and competitions....
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2010, 03:49:51 PM »
"Tom,
How about the Liberty Bell. Piping,Creek,Meadowbrook...RHE"


Robert:

That is also a good example. That one I believe is around July 4 and was begun and has been carried on annually as essentially a two to three day golf tournament and on-going party by the inimitable Nelson Doubleday of publishing and baseball history fame.

TEPaul

Re: Old fashioned cups and competitions....
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2010, 03:52:47 PM »
BobH:

That one is a classic. My name is Thomas Edwin Paul but from now on my friends can call me Onesiphrous of Featherfield!

(Mucci thinks my farm is called Happydale but it is actually Featherfield Farm. The farm I grew up on in Long Island was called Valentine Farm and with a couple of names like that it is no wonder I've always had a pretty mean right upper-cut).
« Last Edit: May 06, 2010, 03:57:07 PM by TEPaul »

Sean Leary

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Re: Old fashioned cups and competitions....
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2010, 07:43:46 PM »
Seattle GC and Victoria GC have one that goes back many years.

Hudson Cup here in the NW is between the top Pros and Am's in WA and OR, pros' versus am's.

Pete_Pittock

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Re: Old fashioned cups and competitions....
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2010, 07:30:11 PM »
Presidents Putter at Rye between Oxford and Cambridge.
I think SFGC and Prestwick have an annual match.

I thought up the Fought Cup(p) between the Reserve Vineyards and Pumpkin Ridge but have never qualified for our team.

Sean_A

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Re: Old fashioned cups and competitions....
« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2010, 03:44:12 AM »
Without a doubt my favourite of these sort of inconsequential (meaning they don't count for any sort of order of merit etc) comps is the Presidents Putter.  Of the "order of merit" comps I have always followed the Duncan Putter held at Southerndown each year since 1959.  It is named after te famous Welsh golfing family - the Duncans.  In the famous photo below it is Tony Duncan (on the right) about to receive the Putter from Bernardo.  T Duncan was twice the winner of the Putter.



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