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Matthew Rose

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is it illegal...
« Reply #25 on: February 21, 2010, 06:27:51 PM »
Wasn't there a player years ago, who was drunk in a playoff?

IIRC he was way behind on Sunday, shot a super low score hours ahead of the leaders, and sat around for hours inebriating himself before the final groups all backed up and he ended up tied. Then he hit a couple of really ugly shots in the playoff.


American-Australian. Trackman Course Guy. Fatalistic sports fan. Drummer. Bass player. Father. Cat lover.

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is it illegal...
« Reply #26 on: February 21, 2010, 07:37:32 PM »
Should it be illegal?

They are men, after all.

Yes, because it is.

Public intoxication. Open container laws, etc.

Kyle, give me a break. You should have a drink once in a while, it'll put that hair you've been waiting for on your chest.  ;)

Jordon, I tend to agree with you that giving players/celebrities/etc... something to drink is perfectly fine as long as its done in reason. Of course what your talking about was done before TV cameras and Microphones were placed all over the course.

Unfortunately for all of us, we live in a very different world now than when the real clambake was being held. Corporations run the show and people like Kyle who will call the cops on someone drinking a G&T on the 17th prevent any real opportunities for a return to form.

With all do respect Pat, my drink of choice is probably much harder than you or most can handle.

The last thing golf needs is canned drunken debauchery. The absolute last thing.

Unless your drinking moonshine out of your bathtub or the gasoline from your mower...I highly doubt it.  ::)

There is a big difference between "drunken debauchery" and what Jordan is talking about. Perhaps you haven't experienced it, but there isn't anything much better than heading out for an extra 9 holes after playing 36 with a strong G&T to get the night started. Hopefully you're not in the bushes watching, I wouldn't want the cops coming to give me a ticket!
H.P.S.

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is it illegal...
« Reply #27 on: February 21, 2010, 07:39:34 PM »
Bob:

No I didn't. I never met him but he was an awful good friend of my father's. I took up golf right around the time Chapman died and for some odd reason I've always gotten him mixed up with Frank Stranahan who I have met and did play with one time at Seminole many years ago. There were a lot of those types who were very good friends with my father like Harvie Ward, Charlie Coe, the singer Don Cherry, Truman Connell, Porky Oliver, Dynamite Goodlow, P.J. Boatright, Bobby Knowles, Billy Joe Patton etc. I'm afraid I just started golf too late (about at 35) to have gotten to know and play with people like that through my father. Had I started about twenty years earlier it might have been different that way.

Did you ever play with Dick Chapman?

Tom,

Dynamite Goodlow?  My dad used to talk about playing with him before WWII in Atlanta.  I don't anything about him.  Any stories you can tell?

Kyle Harris

Re: Is it illegal...
« Reply #28 on: February 21, 2010, 07:56:15 PM »
Should it be illegal?

They are men, after all.

Yes, because it is.

Public intoxication. Open container laws, etc.

Kyle, give me a break. You should have a drink once in a while, it'll put that hair you've been waiting for on your chest.  ;)

Jordon, I tend to agree with you that giving players/celebrities/etc... something to drink is perfectly fine as long as its done in reason. Of course what your talking about was done before TV cameras and Microphones were placed all over the course.

Unfortunately for all of us, we live in a very different world now than when the real clambake was being held. Corporations run the show and people like Kyle who will call the cops on someone drinking a G&T on the 17th prevent any real opportunities for a return to form.

With all do respect Pat, my drink of choice is probably much harder than you or most can handle.

The last thing golf needs is canned drunken debauchery. The absolute last thing.

Unless your drinking moonshine out of your bathtub or the gasoline from your mower...I highly doubt it.  ::)

There is a big difference between "drunken debauchery" and what Jordan is talking about. Perhaps you haven't experienced it, but there isn't anything much better than heading out for an extra 9 holes after playing 36 with a strong G&T to get the night started. Hopefully you're not in the bushes watching, I wouldn't want the cops coming to give me a ticket!

I hope you're at least kidding. I'm hardly a teetotaler - just think alcohol as a crutch for a drab personality is no way to enrich a sport.

I like most Single-Malts. Up, shot of water.
Sake is nice too.

J_ Crisham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is it illegal...
« Reply #29 on: February 21, 2010, 08:04:42 PM »
Should it be illegal?

They are men, after all.

Yes, because it is.

Public intoxication. Open container laws, etc.

Kyle, give me a break. You should have a drink once in a while, it'll put that hair you've been waiting for on your chest.  ;)

Jordon, I tend to agree with you that giving players/celebrities/etc... something to drink is perfectly fine as long as its done in reason. Of course what your talking about was done before TV cameras and Microphones were placed all over the course.

Unfortunately for all of us, we live in a very different world now than when the real clambake was being held. Corporations run the show and people like Kyle who will call the cops on someone drinking a G&T on the 17th prevent any real opportunities for a return to form.

With all do respect Pat, my drink of choice is probably much harder than you or most can handle.

The last thing golf needs is canned drunken debauchery. The absolute last thing.

Unless your drinking moonshine out of your bathtub or the gasoline from your mower...I highly doubt it.  ::)

There is a big difference between "drunken debauchery" and what Jordan is talking about. Perhaps you haven't experienced it, but there isn't anything much better than heading out for an extra 9 holes after playing 36 with a strong G&T to get the night started. Hopefully you're not in the bushes watching, I wouldn't want the cops coming to give me a ticket!

I hope you're at least kidding. I'm hardly a teetotaler - just think alcohol as a crutch for a drab personality is no way to enrich a sport.

I like most Single-Malts. Up, shot of water.
Sake is nice too.
Kyle,  Any chance you would like to join us at the Erie Cafe Thursday evening for our Chicago GCA dinner? I would be happy to referee a drinking match between you and Pat Craig-could be the highlight of the night-we will have about 30 guys watching so it will be the stuff where  GCA legends are made! ;)   Wish you well,  Jack

Kyle Harris

Re: Is it illegal...
« Reply #30 on: February 21, 2010, 08:16:30 PM »
Should it be illegal?

They are men, after all.

Yes, because it is.

Public intoxication. Open container laws, etc.

Kyle, give me a break. You should have a drink once in a while, it'll put that hair you've been waiting for on your chest.  ;)

Jordon, I tend to agree with you that giving players/celebrities/etc... something to drink is perfectly fine as long as its done in reason. Of course what your talking about was done before TV cameras and Microphones were placed all over the course.

Unfortunately for all of us, we live in a very different world now than when the real clambake was being held. Corporations run the show and people like Kyle who will call the cops on someone drinking a G&T on the 17th prevent any real opportunities for a return to form.

With all do respect Pat, my drink of choice is probably much harder than you or most can handle.

The last thing golf needs is canned drunken debauchery. The absolute last thing.

Unless your drinking moonshine out of your bathtub or the gasoline from your mower...I highly doubt it.  ::)

There is a big difference between "drunken debauchery" and what Jordan is talking about. Perhaps you haven't experienced it, but there isn't anything much better than heading out for an extra 9 holes after playing 36 with a strong G&T to get the night started. Hopefully you're not in the bushes watching, I wouldn't want the cops coming to give me a ticket!

I hope you're at least kidding. I'm hardly a teetotaler - just think alcohol as a crutch for a drab personality is no way to enrich a sport.

I like most Single-Malts. Up, shot of water.
Sake is nice too.
Kyle,  Any chance you would like to join us at the Erie Cafe Thursday evening for our Chicago GCA dinner? I would be happy to referee a drinking match between you and Pat Craig-could be the highlight of the night-we will have about 30 guys watching so it will be the stuff where  GCA legends are made! ;)   Wish you well,  Jack

I'd love to, but I'm firmly entrenched in Philadelphia.

Was in Chicago for the first time in January and would love to get back. Seems like a great town.

TEPaul

Re: Is it illegal...
« Reply #31 on: February 21, 2010, 08:46:35 PM »
"Tom,
Dynamite Goodlow?  My dad used to talk about playing with him before WWII in Atlanta.  I don't anything about him.  Any stories you can tell?"





Bill McB:

Whoo! Now you're asking me to go way back and really stretch my memory. I don't believe I ever met Dynamite Goodlow or at least I don't remember him.

Just to preface a bit though, I should remind you that my father was a firm believer in never speaking to someone about golf he figured was not interested in golf and that applied to me when I was young because I didn't like golf or at least he thought I didn't. So what I heard from him about his experiences all came later when I started to play a lot which was around 35, so that was thirty years ago or around 1980.

But to Dyanamite Goodlow and why my father mentioned him to me after around 1980. I think it was because Dad loved to tell me, when he thought I was finally interested, about the important and interesting and often funny things that happened to him in his career in golf and often about things that happened long before I liked golf.

As best as I can remember Dad knew Dynamite Goodlow pretty well and would run into him at various tournaments----whatever they were I can't say other than one which was the only story I remember about Dynamite Goodlow.

It was when he first played against Dynamite Goodlow (I may remember the story just because I always thought his name was so funny and interesting). I distinctly remember it was a big tournament in Ormond Beach Florida. In those days (when we lived in Daytona Beach so it was probably in the 1950s) Ormond still had that incredibly immense old hotel right there and John D. Rockerfeller lived right down the street. He may've even owned the hotel. I think it may've been the biggest wooden hotel in the world at one point.

I actually remember the old Ormond Beach golf course that was part of it and believe me it wasn't much. But Dad drew Dynamite who I recall was the line coach of something like the Georgia Tech football team and he was big and really strong and a full-blooded good ole Southern boy. Dad not only beat the shit outta Dynamite he also set the course record shooting something like a 63 or 64.

But here's the best part. When he beat Dynamite, and Dynamite shook his hand he said: "Jimmy that was one great round of golf and I'm telling you right now that is the last time I'm gonna let some DAMN YANKEE beat me like that."

As far as I recall from my father's maybe one time story about Goodlow the next time Dad ran into Dynamite in a tournament he got the shit beat outta him by that big ole colorful Georgia Tech line coach who Dad said could really play.

That was the way they talked back then. When they said a guy could "really play" they weren't using that term lightly, that's for sure.


But the ones I mentioned above were just some of the amateurs I think. Then there were the pros. My Dad loved the pros and he knew a good many of them certainly including all the good LPGA pros because Dad used to deal with all the ones who worked for Spalding. Dad wanted to be a golf pro, a touring pro. Unfortunately when he told his mother that's what he wanted to do her response was this: "No son of mine is going to be a golf pro, touring or otherwise. You do that and I will disinherit you immediately."

That's what he told me when I got interested in golf. It's pretty sad, don't you think? But that's the world he came from---that's what it was like and that's the way it was back then for him I guess. I know he ran away from a lot of the world he came from and even though he never did consider turning pro again the way I figure it golf and the people in it back then, particularly the ones he knew down in Florida, saved him from himself and what he may've become. God did they all ever love it so but my recollection is they were so easy going and relaxed about it back then at least around me, compared to the way it seems to have gotten.

It seems like it was all so simple then, but haven't we all heard that one before?  ;)
« Last Edit: February 21, 2010, 09:17:58 PM by TEPaul »

John Moore II

Re: Is it illegal...
« Reply #32 on: February 21, 2010, 10:54:05 PM »
JKM,

I am pretty sure there is no such Condition of Competition for USGA events.  I did scan both the entry forms for The Open (2009( and the US Sr. Open (2009) and there is no alcohol policy mentioned.  There is also no alcohol CoC anywhere in the Rules and Decisions book where many sample Local Rules and CoC are listed.  I could be wrong but I have also officiated, played and caddied at about a dozen USGA events and if alcohol is a DQ or penalty then there would be some major issues ;D

As far as open container laws (and I am not advocating drinking or getting hammered on the course) but it is perfectly legal to have a beer on most of the golf courses I am familiar with.  Beverage carts!?  Hello, they were designed in order to get beer in guys hands specifically on the course.  My course has carts (sorry Melvin) fitted with coolers where players can fill up with the beverage of their choice.  The legal issue has been brought up before only because there are two spots where my golfers cross a public road and there is no problem there either.

While I am a teetotaler on the golf course (I have enough issues without being buzzed or drunk) I don't see what on earth is the big deal.  
Breathalizers on the first tee :o

Chris, I'll take your word for it, but I thought my information from the 2006 US Am Qualifier had a condition that drinking was not allowed. I may be wrong though. Whatever.

JohnV

Re: Is it illegal...
« Reply #33 on: February 22, 2010, 10:31:54 AM »
John,
Chris is correct.  There is no rule against drinking at any USGA competition.  Some associations or volunteer might make a rule regarding it, but there is nothing that can be done in the Rules of Golf unless there was a significant breach of etiquette due to drinking.

At the US Mid-Am in 2008 at Milwaukee, I was the referee for a group where a player drank from a flask of hard liquor on the front 9 and had two beers on the back 9.  He wasn't unruly so nothing was done.

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is it illegal...
« Reply #34 on: February 22, 2010, 11:50:55 AM »
I read that Bing Crosby used to hand a fifth to each competitor before they teed off at the Crosby Clambake.  Many times the fifth was gone by the time the round was finished.

Is this illegal nowadays?

If so, why?

If not, why don't more players drink and play?  Some of the celebrities are fun to watch anyways but with them and a partner AND the caddies drinking a fifth....there wouldn't be a better event to watch, period.

Golf needs some entertainment.

Thoughts?

Jordan, You're nuts!

EDIT: Perhaps I should clarify. Most drunks are absolutely boring. Do you know why there is so much peer pressure on college students to drink in excess? Well even if you don't, I'll give you my opinion. College age drunks are absolutely boring, so they put pressure on their peers to drink too so they won't notice so much that the drunks are absolutely boring. It's the impaired judgment caused by alcohol that makes things seem funny. The only way Jordan's suggestion would work is to get all the spectators to have impaired judgment. Many Johnny Miller detractors might actually lighten up if they were impaired by drink. ;)

« Last Edit: February 22, 2010, 11:58:02 AM by Garland Bayley »
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Matthew Petersen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is it illegal...
« Reply #35 on: February 22, 2010, 11:58:17 AM »
It makes perfect sense for the PGA Tour to not allow drinking. The same way my employer doesn't want me drinking on the job, but maximized in the case of the Tour because if I am drunk at work people on national television don't see it.

As for events, I can see where individual events might want to put in a local rule about it just as a way to insulate against liability.

Mike Demetriou

Re: Is it illegal...
« Reply #36 on: February 22, 2010, 12:21:47 PM »

Did you ever play with Dick Chapman?

Are we talking about the Chapman for whom the form of competition is named after? Would love to hear some of those stories...

JC Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is it illegal...
« Reply #37 on: February 22, 2010, 01:19:55 PM »
My drinks are stronger than Pat Craig's and Kyle Harris's combined.
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

TEPaul

Re: Is it illegal...
« Reply #38 on: February 22, 2010, 01:54:14 PM »
Shivas:

Had it been me out there I would've called the cops immediatelty and had them handcuff you and take you AND your caddy immediately to the Hoosegow to see Da Judge!! At the Hoosegow I woulda given you one phone call but only if it was to the Rules Committee of the USGA!



USGA Rules Desk:

"What's the situation Mr. Schmidt?" Did I hear you correctly----you say you were handcuffed on the 7th tee for drinking beer?"
« Last Edit: February 22, 2010, 01:56:46 PM by TEPaul »

Jordan Wall

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is it illegal...
« Reply #39 on: February 22, 2010, 02:26:33 PM »
My drinks are stronger than Pat Craig's and Kyle Harris's combined.

Just go to Holston on a snowy November day and have Schulte or whoever bring some moonshine, voila!!

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is it illegal...
« Reply #40 on: February 22, 2010, 03:14:26 PM »
So my caddie (a buddy who for some strange reason decided he wanted to loop for me) grabbed a six pack and stuck them in the bag before the round.  So we cracked the first ones in the first fairway and wandered into the round.

Were they Dos Equis?

Mike Benham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is it illegal...
« Reply #41 on: February 22, 2010, 03:44:22 PM »
Should it be illegal?

They are men, after all.

Yes, because it is.

Public intoxication. Open container laws, etc.


Private property ...
"... and I liked the guy ..."

Kyle Harris

Re: Is it illegal...
« Reply #42 on: February 22, 2010, 03:48:59 PM »
Should it be illegal?

They are men, after all.

Yes, because it is.

Public intoxication. Open container laws, etc.


Private property ...

Public event, though.

Mike Benham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is it illegal...
« Reply #43 on: February 22, 2010, 03:58:00 PM »

The Bing Crosby story is half true. Bing would hand out as a tee prize  a fifth of bourbon that was in a Toby Jug sort of bottle and the theme would change every year.



"... and I liked the guy ..."

Jon Spaulding

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is it illegal...
« Reply #44 on: February 22, 2010, 05:48:00 PM »
The tile work in the background is sublime and must have been done by a master craftsman........
You'd make a fine little helper. What's your name?

JC Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is it illegal...
« Reply #45 on: February 22, 2010, 08:00:17 PM »
Should it be illegal?

They are men, after all.

Yes, because it is.

Public intoxication. Open container laws, etc.


Private property ...

Public event, though.

No, it isn't.  Moreover, think about the people in the crowd being served drinks.  I understand you are against the players drinking but drinking on a golf course is, generally, not illegal.
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.