[Steve_ Shaffer]

New owner of the resort, Jerry Colangelo of Chicago Bulls, Arizona Diamondbacks and Phoenix Suns fame, is proposing changes to the resort's 3 courses:

Golf: The current golf club will likely be demolished in part or entirely to create more modern facilities. JDM Partners is weighing the need for the resort's three 18-hole golf courses, noting that one might be better used as a training course or golf school.

http://www.azcentral.com/community/swvalley/articles/2010/02/19/20100219colangelo-wigwam.html

I recently played the Blue and will play the Red tomorrow. The member's locker room is old school and so is the Blue with it's unique 5,3,5,3,5 start.

I wonder if the Gold,a RTJ classic recently restored by Forrest Richardson, will surive. Is Colangelo thinking a totally new course or courses?

[Bill_McBride]

I hope they don't do anything to the Gold, that's a very solid course and has plenty of length for the modern game.  I don't know the status of the other courses but think Forrest has done work on them.

We talked about the Gold recently and I was glad to hear those cursed pimples in the driving area of the 18th fairway either are or may be going away!

[Forrest Richardson]

The primary changes being discussed are clubhouse upgrades. I do expect some work to finish and tweak the work we initiated in 2005, but not too much right away. There have always been plans and discussions about adjusting the Red or Blue to become a different experience...I believe that would be exciting giving the right opportunity and providing it works financially. It has been great to work with the new ownership as they truly do understand the great asset of the property.

[Jim Sweeney]

The Wigwam has been around since the 1930s and its tag line has been "Authentic Arizona." Whatever happens with the gold club house, I hope it will reflect the heritage and tone of the village and the property- the southwestern architecture with an historical flavor.

I also hope the Gold and Blue Courses wil be left intact. They represent an era of Arizona golf which has been forgotten due to more modern architectural concepts and the development of the Scottsdale/Carefree corridor, yet continue to challenge and please players of all calibers. (BTW, the Blue is fun to play with Hickories.) I've never been much of a fan of the Red, especially since the changes made to allow for more housing, though it has served an important role as a reliever course when the others were bound up with tournaments or outings, and it is the course of choice for many of the members who feel the Gold is too challenging.

I guess, in summary, I hope Mr. Colangelo and his developers will be sensative to the special nature of the village and its relaxed, "authentic Arizona" nature.

[Forrest Richardson]

Jim — The Red Course was always planned with surrounding homes. They just did not get built until the 1980s, 90s, and some this past decade. The only changes I have ever known about were the shift and rebuilding of the par-3 12th and adjusting the tees at the 13th. We did add some drain pipes across the 15th, but that did not materially change the hole or routing. Most certainly the Red has changed — what was once a course in the middle of farmland is now mostly penned in by residential lots. But, that was how Greg Nash always envisioned it when he laid out the holes!

[Jim Sweeney]

Forrest-

I was not aware that the changes to the Red were contemplated before the course was built.

My first trip around that land was on a horse when it was the site of the Wigwam stables, 44 years ago!

Jim

[Mike Cirba]

This is an interesting and timely thread...

Just a day or so ago I sent a query to Forrest Richardson asking which he'd recommend if I had to choose only one course of some vintage while visiting in Phoenix...either Arizona Biltmore or Wigwam (Gold), and he's done some significant restoration work on each.

Of course, for a number of reasons mostly unrelated to architecture (such as the fact I'll be staying in Litchfield Park the night before) he advised the Wigwam was probably my better bet.

I'd be curious to hear others take on which course they'd send an architectural afficianado to so that he could have a taste of old Phoenix....Wigwam (Gold) or Arizona Biltmore?

Thanks for your opinions.

[Mike Cirba]

Bump

[Jim Sweeney]

Mike, I can't say because I've never payed the Biltmore. But I do recommend the Wigwam Gold.

Since you are staying in Litchfield Park, if you like mexican food, eat at the Old Pueblo restauant on Old Litchfield Rd in the Village.

ANd if you have some extra time, the Cincinnati Reds and Cleveland Indians are in spring training at their new facilities just down the road near the Goodyear/Phoenix airport.

[Mike Cirba]

Mike, I can't say because I've never payed the Biltmore. But I do recommend the Wigwam Gold.

Since you are staying in Litchfield Park, if you like mexican food, eat at the Old Pueblo restauant on Old Litchfield Rd in the Village.

ANd if you have some extra time, the Cincinnati Reds and Cleveland Indians are in spring training at their new facilities just down the road near the Goodyear/Phoenix airport.

Jim,

Thanks for the recommendations!

LOVE Mexican food, the more authentic the better, and I will suggest it to my future father/brothers-in law.

Did you know that Wigwam-Gold used to be in Golf Digest's Top 100 courses, circa 1982?   

[Bill_McBride]

This is an interesting and timely thread...

Just a day or so ago I sent a query to Forrest Richardson asking which he'd recommend if I had to choose only one course of some vintage while visiting in Phoenix...either Arizona Biltmore or Wigwam (Gold), and he's done some significant restoration work on each.

Of course, for a number of reasons mostly unrelated to architecture (such as the fact I'll be staying in Litchfield Park the night before) he advised the Wigwam was probably my better bet.

I'd be curious to hear others take on which course they'd send an architectural afficianado to so that he could have a taste of old Phoenix....Wigwam (Gold) or Arizona Biltmore?

Thanks for your opinions.

I haven't played the Biltmore for years, but did play the Gold not long ago.  It is somewhat unique in that you never get the "desert" feeling you get in almost every other Phoenix area course.   It's a lot of fun and very walkable....and they don't care if you walk!

[Mike Cirba]

Bill

Given that the remainder of my trip will be spent in Scottsdale/Carefree, I'm pretty sure I'll get enough of that "desert" feeling before the week is out, which is why I'm interested in seeing more of the "old" Phoenix by way of education.

The fact that you can walk just makes it all the more appealing.    Thanks!

[Steve_ Shaffer]

I'll second the recommendation of Old Pueblo in Litchfield Park.

The Wigwam Resort had it's heyday in the 1970s- 1980s when groups of country clubbers from the East and MidWest vacationed there for winter getaways in large numbers so I can understand why Gold was so highly rated back in the day. Having played Gold 2 years ago and Blue and Red this year, I can say it is fine resort and good option for those seeking some history(the Resort has many old pictures in the hallways) and a reprise from "desert golf." A friend of mine,originally from NJ,, who considers himself a native having lived in the area since the early 1970s, frequently plays Red so he can relive his more tradional golf experiences.

[Bill_McBride]

Bill

Given that the remainder of my trip will be spent in Scottsdale/Carefree, I'm pretty sure I'll get enough of that "desert" feeling before the week is out, which is why I'm interested in seeing more of the "old" Phoenix by way of education.

The fact that you can walk just makes it all the more appealing.    Thanks!

Mike, another course that has the desert feeling but is also eminently walkable (and we did) is the Champions course at TPC of Scottsdale.  It's a natural layout that's been recently remodeled so don't know what was changed, but it's a good basic routing.

Check your PM.

[Matthew Petersen]

Bill

Given that the remainder of my trip will be spent in Scottsdale/Carefree, I'm pretty sure I'll get enough of that "desert" feeling before the week is out, which is why I'm interested in seeing more of the "old" Phoenix by way of education.

The fact that you can walk just makes it all the more appealing.    Thanks!

Mike, another course that has the desert feeling but is also eminently walkable (and we did) is the Champions course at TPC of Scottsdale.  It's a natural layout that's been recently remodeled so don't know what was changed, but it's a good basic routing.

Check your PM.

Champions is an excellent course. As Bill says, the prior routing (known as the Desert Course) was excellent but the holes were generally lacking. Now most holes have more character and it's a good lower cost alternative to most courses in that area.

[Jim Sweeney]

Mike- I almost forgot- look into playing Verrado, about a 30 minut drive west in the foothills of the White Tank mountains. Solid course with spectacular views of the valley. When I played the conditions were outstanding.

One other point on the Wigwam. Until ten or fifteen years ago it was wall to wall grass. They reduced the grass in spots but those areas are highly maintained. So it does not have its original maintenance meld but it is definitely not desert golf as we have come to define it.

BTW, if you are in need of tonsorial attention, the guys at the Village Barber Shop near the Old Pueblo) are the best. Make an appointment!

[Mike Cirba]

Mike- I almost forgot- look into playing Verrado, about a 30 minut drive west in the foothills of the White Tank mountains. Solid course with spectacular views of the valley. When I played the conditions were outstanding.

One other point on the Wigwam. Until ten or fifteen years ago it was wall to wall grass. They reduced the grass in spots but those areas are highly maintained. So it does not have its original maintenance meld but it is definitely not desert golf as we have come to define it.

BTW, if you are in need of tonsorial attention, the guys at the Village Barber Shop near the Old Pueblo) are the best. Make an appointment!

Jim,

Thanks for the info.

On the other hand, one of the advantages of my present hairstyle is that I no longer need to pay for grooming. 

[Matthew Petersen]

Verrado is definitely one of the better courses in the west valley. Golf Club at Estrella is also very good. Both are in the target desert golf style--Estrella probably even more so than Verrado.

[Jim Sweeney]

Mike C:

Wondering about your picture of Calvin Coolidge and the "Persistence" quotation- are you a Fiji?

[Mike Cirba]

Mike C:

Wondering about your picture of Calvin Coolidge and the "Persistence" quotation- are you a Fiji?

Jim,

Not sure I understand the question?   

It's just a personal philosophy I admire.   I also think the history of the world is determined by bands of small, committed minorities.

When the US Revolution started, about 13% of the colonists actually wanted to break from Great Britain, as an example.

[Jim Sweeney]

Hey Mike-

"Fiji" is the nickname of my college fraternity. Silen Cal is/was an alumnus so "Peristence" gets quite a lot of play in our programs. Shot in the dark.

Jim

[Mike Cirba]

Jim,

Nope, but an interesting sidenote that led me to dig a little deeper into "Silent Cal".   

I suspect he'd probably lean towards Wigwam over Biltmore.   

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()