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Mac Plumart

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Diamante Cabo San Lucas (Dunes)
« on: February 17, 2010, 08:08:25 PM »
Did anyone see the latest cover of Links Magazine?

Diamante Cabo San Lucas (Dunes) on the cover.  I know people have talked about it on this site, but DAMN it looks sweet!

Also listed in the same article, TPC San Antonio, Prairie Club, Lost Farm, Cape Fear National, and Bahia De Los Suenos (or Bay of Dreams for you home gamers).

Not a bad set of new courses for a recession!!
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Jud_T

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Re: Diamante Cabo San Lucas (Dunes)
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2010, 08:35:50 PM »
Mac,
I just saw it. Why no Old Mac?
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Mac Plumart

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Re: Diamante Cabo San Lucas (Dunes)
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2010, 09:22:25 PM »
Good question...but isn't that magazine awesome!!!

I look forward to its arrival every quarter.
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Cliff Hamm

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Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: Diamante Cabo San Lucas (Dunes)
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2010, 02:34:36 AM »
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Sean Leary

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Re: Diamante Cabo San Lucas (Dunes)
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2010, 10:29:08 AM »
Not having Old Mac in there is a major flaw, partner. Links Magazine needs to wake up and smell the coffee and include this Beaver State gem as it clearly has the bonafide goods to be included.

;)

Steve_Roths

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Re: Diamante Cabo San Lucas (Dunes)
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2010, 10:34:00 AM »
To be fair to Links, they did feature Old Mac in a full profile in the previous month's issue.

Scott_Burroughs

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Re: Diamante Cabo San Lucas (Dunes)
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2010, 10:47:24 AM »
Not having Old Mac in there is a major flaw, partner. Links Magazine needs to wake up and smell the coffee and include this Beaver State gem as it clearly has the bonafide goods to be included.

;)

That's pardner.

Yes, Links has dropped the ball on this one, especially considering how easy it is to get to.  It's right off the interstate, I mean just outside a major metropolitan area, um, their editors should just know about it, since it's been hyped up and talked about incessantly on GCA.com.

Tim Nugent

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Re: Diamante Cabo San Lucas (Dunes)
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2010, 11:01:05 AM »
Did anyone see the latest cover of Links Magazine?


...Not a bad set of new courses for a recession!!

Mac, since it usually takes years from idea to opening, just because some courses are opening this year has little bearing on the state of golf development.  Jut look at the number of projects that have been mothballed or shelved.  That backlog  will have to be resolved first. So, unfortunately, it will probably be some time before new courses begin to be planned. 

In the meantime, the ranks of unemployed architects will grow.  I also suspect that this may end the Pro designer era, as jouneyman architects will survive on low paying remodeling and renovation work but those who lived in the big, new course world will find slim pickings.  Plus, there won't be such a need for developers (here in the US) to pay the extra marketing $$$ for the Marquee name.  But overseas they will probably get a job or 2.

Much like '74 and '81, this time will be looked back upon as a watershed period.  Too bad for GCAers, I don't foresee much new raw meat to disect in the new future. 
Coasting is a downhill process

Anthony Gray

Re: Diamante Cabo San Lucas (Dunes)
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2010, 01:25:52 PM »


  My wife speeks spanish and Diamante Cabo San Lucas means Diamante Cabo Saint Luke.


  Anthony


Scott_Burroughs

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Re: Diamante Cabo San Lucas (Dunes)
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2010, 01:35:52 PM »


  My wife speeks spanish and Diamante Cabo San Lucas means Diamante Cabo Saint Luke.


  Anthony



Funny, I always thought 'diamante' was Spanish for 'diamond'.

Donnie Luper

Re: Diamante Cabo San Lucas (Dunes)
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2010, 11:01:51 PM »
Most of you guys do not know me. I rate courses for Golf Digest and have played our top 100 and many more. I am in Mexico and just played Diamante yesterday and all I can say is WOW. Davis Love did a fabulouse job with an incredible piece of property. Dunes reminiscent of Pacific Dunes at Bandon. Holes that made me think I was back in Ireland at the European Club and others that made me feel like I was at Sand Hills.

I honestly have not been a great fan of some of what Davis Love III has done but he an incredible job creating a course with superb shot values, lots of design variety. The course was also very playable for higher handicap golfers. If you can get to Cabo it is well worth it. IN my opinion this course is in my top 10 that I have ever played.

It is well worth it to come to Cabo just to play this course but if you are here do not miss playing Cabo Del Sol Ocean course. It would make it a great trip to just play those 2.

Tim Gavrich

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Re: Diamante Cabo San Lucas (Dunes)
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2010, 11:33:51 PM »
Welcome to the site, Donnie!  Interesting thoughts on Diamante, a course that makes me salivate when I see pictures of it.

You said you've never been a huge fan of DLIII's golf courses until Diamante.  I'm curious as t which others you've played and your comments on them.  A lot of people seem to like his course at Barefoot Resort in Myrtle Beach.  That is the only DLIII course I've played and while I think it's nice, I was not over-the-moon about it.

Cheers, and welcome.

--Tim
Senior Writer, GolfPass

Donnie Luper

Re: Diamante Cabo San Lucas (Dunes)
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2010, 12:20:39 AM »
I have played Anderson Creek,  The Reserve,  The Love Course in Myrtle Beach (which I agree is good), and the Patriot at Grand Harbor. These are the originals I have played. They are good but not worthy of top 100 status. The Patriot I thought was the best of these.

I also played the redos at Irish Creek and the redo at Forest Oaks. THe redo at Irish Creek was OK but I did not like the redo at Forest Oaks in Greensboro at all. I thought it was really out of character with the original design of Ellis Maples. BUt then again maybe they were asking for this at the course.

But Diamante was off the charts.

Michael Robin

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Re: Diamante Cabo San Lucas (Dunes)
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2010, 12:49:35 AM »
Donnie Luper? That Donnie Luper? Hope it's not true what Bob Greig has said about you all these years! I'm just kidding Donnie, although your thirst to see as many courses on a golf trip as humanly possible is legendary. We met at the Trans-Miss at Prarie Dunes in the mid-90s. I've been Bob's Partner at Riviera for many years. Welcome to the site. Your enormous archive of courses that you have seen will serve you well here, and get you into more than a few tussles.

Have fun,
Michael Robin. 

Anthony Gray

Re: Diamante Cabo San Lucas (Dunes)
« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2010, 11:00:05 AM »


  I played Diamante twice earlier this year and thought it was fantastic. Got my camera stolen so no pics but I'm going back. Best range set up in the world. A grill and rock & roll music can't be beat. A great way to prepare for a round. Only one hole did I find that was weak. 17 is controversial but I think it comes straight from Scotland which quirk whores like myself live to play.If only it was 18 the the routing would be flawless.One of my top 5 courses on the fun scale. May be the Cruden Bay of Mexico.Should crack the top 100 if enough raters get down there.

 Con mucho gusto

  Anthony

 

paul cowley

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Re: Diamante Cabo San Lucas (Dunes)
« Reply #16 on: July 11, 2010, 12:00:03 PM »
Anthony...thanks for your fine comments but I'm confused from your post....is 17 the weak hole or is it another?

I think the quirk, like most quirk holes, becomes less quirky the more you play.

The is a little visual confusion on the tee of the 550 yd par 5 the first time you play it, but there is a great 30 yd wide speed slot in the center of the left to right angled fairway that allows for a go in two to the steeply elevated and shelved green site....one that has a strong backstop that allows for an extra club or two as the way to play the hole....the ball will generally come back. Short is bad...no stroke penalty but just a blind and difficult pitch of about 30' elevation to the shallow green.

Hole 17, along with 7, 15, and 16, were the most natural or minimalist holes. Except for removing the existing vegetation, levelling the tees and adding irrigation and grass, very little was done at all.

The next time you play 295 yd par three 7th , take at least one or preferably two extra clubs and enjoy watching the the ball climb 10 to 15 yds up the backstop slope and then come back down to usually the center of the green!
« Last Edit: July 11, 2010, 12:08:50 PM by paul cowley »
paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

Anthony Gray

Re: Diamante Cabo San Lucas (Dunes)
« Reply #17 on: July 11, 2010, 12:13:20 PM »


  Paul,

  17 is my favorite hole. I love the "quirk" of the hole. I think it is straight out of something you would see in Scotland. I think it would work out better if it was the finishing hole but understand the difficulty with the routing. The double platau fairway is ingenious. I'm glad to see the designer resisted the temptation to remove the natural vegetation and ridge between the two lvels and make it one continious fairway. It functions well strategically as well as aestethically. Also the green site is a charmer. Natural and unique,and again very scotish. I love everything about 14. Even if the 2nd shot is partially blind it lays in what appears to be a natural valley much like irish courses. Again well done. 13 was the hole I found to be a little week. Just seemed out of place with the design of the others. Maybe a little too plain. If the green hugged the water it would have more interest. All in all though one of the best golfing experiences I've ever had.

  Anthony


Greg Tallman

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Re: Diamante Cabo San Lucas (Dunes)
« Reply #18 on: July 11, 2010, 12:27:16 PM »
Anthony...thanks for your fine comments but I'm confused from your post....is 17 the weak hole or is it another?

I think the quirk, like most quirk holes, becomes less quirky the more you play.

The is a little visual confusion on the tee of the 550 yd par 5 the first time you play it, but there is a great 30 yd wide speed slot in the center of the left to right angled fairway that allows for a go in two to the steeply elevated and shelved green site....one that has a strong backstop that allows for an extra club or two as the way to play the hole....the ball will generally come back. Short is bad...no stroke penalty but just a blind and difficult pitch of about 30' elevation to the shallow green.

Hole 17, along with 7, 15, and 16, were the most natural or minimalist holes. Except for removing the existing vegetation, levelling the tees and adding irrigation and grass, very little was done at all.

The next time you play 295 yd par three 7th , take at least one or preferably two extra clubs and enjoy watching the the ball climb 10 to 15 yds up the backstop slope and then come back down to usually the center of the green!

2 extra clubs on a 295 yard hole???? Yeah, yeah, yeah... the wind.

I disagree with 17 but have stated as much before... I think you will eventually have to soften the green site. Perhaps soften is not the correct word.... make more accessible is more accurate. I would say 70-80% of female golfers could not hit the ball high enough to get up to the green.

Nearly everyone I have played with agrees that your original green site for 13 would have been superior to the current benched green though I personally enjoy the subtle contouring along the back edge. I have hit more than one "controlled hook" to the back left pin that landed on the front right and took the roller coaster back to the correct section of the green.

FYI - This course is now scheduled to go private as of January 1, 2011. There will be some form of access granted but it will be rather tight. Happy to help with introductions with the Diamante staff for those interested.

Donnie Luper

Re: Diamante Cabo San Lucas (Dunes)
« Reply #19 on: July 11, 2010, 01:44:28 PM »
Greg,

The same Greg Tallman at Cabo Del So?

I can see your point about #17 for women. I just wonder if they get the ball to the bottom of the hill in front of the green if since it is only about a 50 yard shot they could not get it up there?

As far as #13 goes where was the original green site??  Left over by the water. I hit the same shot to the right side of the green and wind was right to left and kicked the ball back down to the green where there was a side board. I liked the hole.

To me the weakest hole was #5 the par three. But the wind was blowing about 2 clubs so I could see how it had to be a bigger green.
How about the rest of you who played it. WHat did you think was the weakest hole. ANd what did you think was the best hole?

Personally I loved #4 for the risk reward. I also loved #9, #11, #14-#18.

WHat was the thought from the rest of you about #18. Did you like the hole as far as the bite as much as you can risk reward part of the drive? I will try to post pictures when I get home of every hole if you would like.

Greg Tallman

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Re: Diamante Cabo San Lucas (Dunes)
« Reply #20 on: July 11, 2010, 03:23:07 PM »
Greg,

The same Greg Tallman at Cabo Del So?

I can see your point about #17 for women. I just wonder if they get the ball to the bottom of the hill in front of the green if since it is only about a 50 yard shot they could not get it up there?

As far as #13 goes where was the original green site??  Left over by the water. I hit the same shot to the right side of the green and wind was right to left and kicked the ball back down to the green where there was a side board. I liked the hole.

To me the weakest hole was #5 the par three. But the wind was blowing about 2 clubs so I could see how it had to be a bigger green.
How about the rest of you who played it. WHat did you think was the weakest hole. ANd what did you think was the best hole?

Personally I loved #4 for the risk reward. I also loved #9, #11, #14-#18.

WHat was the thought from the rest of you about #18. Did you like the hole as far as the bite as much as you can risk reward part of the drive? I will try to post pictures when I get home of every hole if you would like.


Yep, same handsome fellow who was not sure if he was at the golf course or the condohotel at that moment. Did you play the other courses in town? Thoughts?

Not a big fan of #9 (relative to the rest of the course)

#11 is my favorite hole on the course followed closely by 15, 16, 2 and a hole that I would guess few would list as a favorite on this course... #8. Also love 3 and 4.

#5 is all about the green and a ton of fun, at least for those of us who NEVER get it within 15-20 feet and thus have some serious "work" left (somehting so entertaining should not be called work).

#9 I have the same issue as #13 - the benched green is out of character with the site and rest of course. Hey, that is just the take of one hillbilly who has perhaps played a few too many benched green sites back in the day.

Holes 3 and 4 are also a lot of fun. #3 is all about the approach after a uneventful tee shot and 4 is a hole that should be played from a drivable distance... what a blast that hole is.

#18 is fun and is best played with a long approach as if one is able to sneak it down within short iron range they will miss the "fun" that is running it on from 180-220 yards out. From the back tee cutting the corner is not an option for most and thus the hole playes as intended (I hope Paul would agree with that).

My iunderstanding on 13 us that yes the green site was over bnearer the lake using the natural flowing contour of the hole versus the perched/benched green as it is now. The cool thing about the green and surrounds is the shot both of us have employed will get swallowed in a tiny little collection bowl just off the back center... have hit what i thought was perfect a couple times only to be left with a devlish little pitch/chip/putt from the collection bowl. Pretty cool green and I think my objection is mostly visual in nature.

paul cowley

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Re: Diamante Cabo San Lucas (Dunes) New
« Reply #21 on: July 11, 2010, 03:56:38 PM »



Greg Greg Greg....#7 got you down....you need to move up a set probably. I enjoy the course the most from the 6600+ yd set because it puts the risk/reward holes in play for me. I play #7 from around 235/240 yds [a three wood usually for me] but I have found a driver is better because its much more difficult to come up short with the tough pitch over the 'dragons teeth' [a term for that oft repeated and existing land form found on site]. Try it. Let me know.

#17 is a par 5 and the ladies can always resort to a putter or other short weapon to get up the green slope...which is why I argued for and was successful making it a grassed slope....there was a contingent that wanted it to remain natural sandy waste as it 'looked so good', but sorry, function first always trumps over form...in my book anyway.


Donnie....welcome aboard!
I would enjoy feedback about favorite holes etc, because to date they have been all over the board...which is great because it suggests a strong depth of good or better holes. #5 btw was another of the holes we just left natural, especially the green contours...all of which were originally existing. #15's green incorporated existing contours as well. Sometimes you get lucky while looking for green sites and end up telling yourself "how can I make this any better"....it actually would be more work and not end up as good. But this is rare and only happens on exceptional sites such as Diamante.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2011, 12:48:41 PM by paul cowley »
paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

Tim Book

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Re: Diamante Cabo San Lucas (Dunes)
« Reply #22 on: July 11, 2010, 09:42:14 PM »
I was fortunate to play Diamante a few weeks back in a 'shamble' shot gun for a fishing/golf charity tournament.  Wow, what a site.  The height of the dunes were unbelievable.  Unfortunately due to the number of golfers there was a limited number of "all terrain" carts and our group didn't get one.  The course is definately set up for the all terrain carts.  The stardard carts made for a Mr. Toads wild ride.

Paul, did you ever consider turning the railroad ties parallel to the path of travel?  Just a thought.

Our group started on 14 which might have been my favorite hole.  The approach with the pin tucked on the left side of the green was tough but fantastic.  Made a birdie on my own ball on 16 which added to my fondness for the hole.  Loved the risk / reward of 17.  The greensite for the par 3 2nd was also a highlight.  Almost impossible to get the ball near the hole with a front pin position when the hole plays down wind, which I would imagine is most of the time.

Greg, how in this economy could Diamante go totally private?

Seems like a perfect complement to Cabo Del Sol, but would have a hard time playing Diamante everyday.  The wind can be so punishing.  I think the GCA crowd will love Diamante, but I wonder if 'retail' golfers will be able to handle the test.


Donnie Luper

Re: Diamante Cabo San Lucas (Dunes)
« Reply #23 on: July 11, 2010, 11:47:15 PM »
Paul,
THanks for the info about the things that were done at Diamante. I am playing again tomorrow and will look at the 5th green again.

I thought that the bank on #17 was grassed for that purpose. I think that is a good idea for the ladies.

ANd I thought the green on #9 was fantastic. I loved the false front which I was at the bottom of. I thought it fit well in the land as this was at the bottom of a dune that went up.

And like Greg I thought # 8 brought alot into club selection as to where to hit it. There was a  lot of strategy involved if you took the left side and tried to hit it over the bunker to get near the green, which brought the waste area on the left into play. Or you can take a 3 wood down the right side and avoid the 2 bunkers on that side and it leaves an open approach to the green but changes the angle of coming into the green and makes it more difficult. Really good hole.

And I agree with Tim about hole #14. AWESOME. REminds me of a hole at Enniscrone in Ireland. I think #15 but the green turns right there. #2 was also aboslultely awesome. I played left front pin and it was the easiest pin position there could be.

Chip Gaskins

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Re: Diamante Cabo San Lucas (Dunes)
« Reply #24 on: July 11, 2010, 11:55:14 PM »
Donnie

Donnie- I know you ;)  How are you!

Chip