[Steve Strasheim]

Having read through the long golf snob thread, I think it's safe to say that most of the membership there basically admitted a degree of snobbery about the game of golf. I'm the same way, particularly when it comes to slow play.

This is not conducive to "growing the game" which I believe is also a common interest to the membership here. A person new to golf has to deal with not just learning how to hit the ball, but also how to measure-up to more experienced players expectations for etiquette and rules. New players don't know any better than to do the things that annoy more serious players, making bigger snobs out of the experienced player and making more embarrassment for the new player.

This leads me to take a pledge today to be more tolerant of slow play in the future. It's the least I could do.

[Mark Pritchett]

and yet "time" is one of the very reasons the game does not grow.

It is one thing to be slow if you are a beginner, but the majority of slow play that I see are people who clearly play regularly, including single-digit handicappers at my home course. 

[Garland Bayley]

Having read through the long golf snob thread, I think it's safe to say that most of the membership there basically admitted a degree of snobbery about the game of golf. I'm the same way, particularly when it comes to slow play.

This is not conducive to "growing the game" which I believe is also a common interest to the membership here. A person new to golf has to deal with not just learning how to hit the ball, but also how to measure-up to more experienced players expectations for etiquette and rules. New players don't know any better than to do the things that annoy more serious players, making bigger snobs out of the experienced player and making more embarrassment for the new player.

This leads me to take a pledge today to be more tolerant of slow play in the future. It's the least I could do.

Once again the mistaken correlation between how many strokes taken and the length of time to play!
Only snobs who think they are good players make that correlation!
Steve, drop your snobbery and encourage beginners to play along with you quickly! Or, are you one of the low handicappers that don't know how to play quickly?

[Niall C]

Mark

Sadly, you are not wrong, not all slow players are beginners.

Steve

You assume that most on here want to grow the game, well personally thats an aspiration that I'm not fussed about. I'll leave that to those that are making money out of the game. What I want to see is the well being of the game maintained, by that I mean etiquette, common courtesy, the spirit of the game if you will. If we can get back to the standards we used to have, and again I'm sorry to say standards have moved the wrong way over the last 10 to 20 years IMO, then issues such as the speed of play would be taken care of as a matter of course.

Without wishing to harp on about slow play I used to believe that if someone wanted to spend 5 hours on one round of golf then fine. That was when slower players would stand aside to let faster players through. Not now. When was the last time you someone stand aside other than when a ball was lost ?

Niall

[Bob_Huntley]

An  interesting question. How many of you, when playing Cypress, Shinnecock, Pine Valley, the Old Course or dozens of other gems feel the need to get around in great haste? Frankly, I hate getting off some of these courses and want the day to last.

Bob

[Ben Kodadek]

Once again the mistaken correlation between how many strokes taken and the length of time to play!
Only snobs who think they are good players make that correlation!
Steve, drop your snobbery and encourage beginners to play along with you quickly! Or, are you one of the low handicappers that don't know how to play quickly?
[/quote]

My wife (then girlfriend) wanted to take up the game a few years back.  I said I would be happy to play with her at anytime, provided A.) she knew the rules and B.) she played quickly.  She learned the rules and probably has a better grasp on them than some of my regular golf buddies.  Additionally, she now comments on how SLOWLY most people play.  It's great.  I love watching her lean on a club in the fairway waiting to hit her her 8th shot while someone is taking forever lining up their birdie putt on the green!

[Brent Hutto]

If anyone makes pronouncements about "Growing the Game" as though that's some sort of worthwhile goal or measure of the desirability of this or that course of action...

...that person is most certainly not qualified to call himself a Golf Snob. It is the very essence of Snobbery to declare certain persons or certain ways of appreciating the object or pursuit in question superior to those who don't "get it".

If there's anything a Golf Snob can not abide it is someone calling himself a Golf Snob while espousing antithetical beliefs about inclusiveness, universality or the desirability of growth by attracting undesirable elements!

[Anthony Gray]

  I always felt that golf was superior to other sports because it was a gentelmen's game. A game that trancended socioeconomic differences. Trancends age and gender differences. A friend is a member at The Honors and has been gracious enough to host myself and friends in the past. His statement says much.."Golfers are generally good people". He views fellow golfers as members of the same fraturnity. People that you can enjoy 18 holes with then dinner later. Recently I saw were Jack said about conceeding the putt in the Ryder Cup... "It is a good-will match".

  Anthony

[Mark Pritchett]

An  interesting question. How many of you, when playing Cypress, Shinnecock, Pine Valley, the Old Course or dozens of other gems feel the need to get around in great haste? Frankly, I hate getting off some of these courses and want the day to last.

Bob

Agreed!  I would guess rounds at all of these courses rarely suffer from a full tee sheet of slow players.  

[Steve Strasheim]

Once again the mistaken correlation between how many strokes taken and the length of time to play!
Only snobs who think they are good players make that correlation!
Steve, drop your snobbery and encourage beginners to play along with you quickly! Or, are you one of the low handicappers that don't know how to play quickly?

Sorry, but I'm talking about slow play, not simply strokes taken. Say the new player takes two, or three practice swings. Maybe he struggles deciding which club to hit after arriving at his ball, there are many little annoyances to a golf snob. Me, I am not a low handicapper, but have traditionally been pissed off by slow players. I think that attitude is wrong, because I want the game to grow. So, I pledge to be more tolerant.

Posted on: Today at 01:12:14 PMPosted by: Brent Hutto 
Insert Quote
If anyone makes pronouncements about "Growing the Game" as though that's some sort of worthwhile goal or measure of the desirability of this or that course of action...

...that person is most certainly not qualified to call himself a Golf Snob. It is the very essence of Snobbery to declare certain persons or certain ways of appreciating the object or pursuit in question superior to those who don't "get it".

If there's anything a Golf Snob can not abide it is someone calling himself a Golf Snob while espousing antithetical beliefs about inclusiveness, universality or the desirability of growth by attracting undesirable elements!

While that is refreshingly honest and a good post, I don't think anyone here wants to see golf courses shut down and new course projects few and far between. Having read lots of threads about why people quit golf, how clubs will survive, etc, it seeems "growing the game" is important to the game.

[Dean Stokes]

An  interesting question. How many of you, when playing Cypress, Shinnecock, Pine Valley, the Old Course or dozens of other gems feel the need to get around in great haste? Frankly, I hate getting off some of these courses and want the day to last.

Bob

Agreed!  I would guess rounds at all of these courses rarely suffer from a full tee sheet of slow players.  

An interesting question. What percentage of the golfing public care about the pace of play at above mentioned golf courses? Three of the four are nigh on impossible to get on and the other has a packed tee sheet of tourists everyday.

[Brent Hutto]

While that is refreshingly honest and a good post, I don't think anyone here wants to see golf courses shut down and new course projects few and far between. Having read lots of threads about why people quit golf, how clubs will survive, etc, it seeems "growing the game" is important to the game.

Well it's important to those who earn money from building new courses, running existing courses and so forth. And no, I don't think anyone is welcoming the loss of golf courses. But then again, I can't really see how golf as I experience it would be any worse off if a calendar year went by without a single new course being built.

And if one cost of seeing new courses built is welcoming those who do not participate in the ways I think appropriate for what I consider "A Golfer" to behave, then I'd rather see fewer courses than have the game diluted into something eventually unrecognizable. When you define "growing" per se as the goal (not just in golf but in anything) it is the easiest thing in the world to redefine the thing itself into something bigger in lieu of actual growth of the thing as originally conceived.

Believe me, when "golf" gets defined downward to something done sitting on ones ass in a golf cart messing with two-way video links that is long way from the game as originally conceived or the game as I practice it.

[Mark Pritchett]

I think there is a better chance for getting people who already play golf, to play more often, rather than "growing" the game with new players. 

Most players I talk to would play more often if, big surprise here, you could play on average a bit faster and it were less costly.

[Dean Stokes]

I think there is a better chance for getting people who already play golf, to play more often, rather than "growing" the game with new players. 

Most players I talk to would play more often if, big surprise here, you could play on average a bit faster and it were less costly.

Mark, I couldn't agree with you more. Time and money are the two main reasons I do not play golf very much anymore. In fact, the main issue is money - the damn game is just too expensive.

[Garland Bayley]

Once again the mistaken correlation between how many strokes taken and the length of time to play!
Only snobs who think they are good players make that correlation!
Steve, drop your snobbery and encourage beginners to play along with you quickly! Or, are you one of the low handicappers that don't know how to play quickly?

Sorry, but I'm talking about slow play, not simply strokes taken. Say the new player takes two, or three practice swings. Maybe he struggles deciding which club to hit after arriving at his ball, there are many little annoyances to a golf snob. Me, I am not a low handicapper, but have traditionally been pissed off by slow players. I think that attitude is wrong, because I want the game to grow. So, I pledge to be more tolerant.
...

Struggling to decide which club to hit and being a beginner meaningless. There is no right club to hit for a beginner. Give the beginner a 5 wood, a 7 iron, and a putter and off they go. Also, practice swings for the beginner are meaning less. Every swing is a practice swing whether intended to hit the ball or not. The beginner should try to hit the ball every time. That's what they need practice at. They don't need practice at hitting the ground aimlessly. I will readily admit they come to the game well prepared for that.

I swear, there is little common sense on this site!

[JMEvensky]

Well it's important to those who earn money from building new courses, running existing courses and so forth. And no, I don't think anyone is welcoming the loss of golf courses. But then again, I can't really see how golf as I experience it would be any worse off if a calendar year went by without a single new course being built.

And if one cost of seeing new courses built is welcoming those who do not participate in the ways I think appropriate for what I consider "A Golfer" to behave, then I'd rather see fewer courses than have the game diluted into something eventually unrecognizable. When you define "growing" per se as the goal (not just in golf but in anything) it is the easiest thing in the world to redefine the thing itself into something bigger in lieu of actual growth of the thing as originally conceived.

Believe me, when "golf" gets defined downward to something done sitting on ones ass in a golf cart messing with two-way video links that is long way from the game as originally conceived or the game as I practice it.

I agree with this,especially the third paragraph,with one exception.

There are definitely clubs who'd love to see other clubs close.Reducing supply would help a lot of clubs in a lot of markets.

[John Moore II]

You can play slow on weekday afternoons, not Saturday mornings. There is a difference here in when you play. I only dislike slow play when I'm behind the slow group and they won't let me through (and they're the only ones on the course) As far as rules and ettiqute go, I could care less really. I'm a really relaxed golfer and I'll never throw out some silly rules infraction or decision against someone unless asked, well unless we're playing for money of course. But I could care less what rules you follow on the course, just play fast, have fun, be a cool dude, and you and I will be just fine for the 4-5 hours we get to spend together today. (OK, certainly I don't advocate taking divots on the greens and such, but who cares if someone walks on your line or wiggles while you try to hit, get over it)

Being a little snobish doesn't mean you can't grow the game, it just means you have a few expectations about what the game should be. I have those expectations same as anyone else, just mine might be different from some other people's.

[Steve Strasheim]

I think there is a better chance for getting people who already play golf, to play more often, rather than "growing" the game with new players. 

Most players I talk to would play more often if, big surprise here, you could play on average a bit faster and it were less costly.

Mark, I couldn't agree with you more. Time and money are the two main reasons I do not play golf very much anymore. In fact, the main issue is money - the damn game is just too expensive.

Mark and Dean,

What if a decent course starting offering 6 hole routings for a buck a hole?

Lot's of people would pass on that out of tradition. Perhaps another word for snob is traditionalist.

Garland,

My goal is to use common sense to gain understanding. Sorry if you feel I lack it.

[Bradley Anderson]

Having read through the long golf snob thread, I think it's safe to say that most of the membership there basically admitted a degree of snobbery about the game of golf. I'm the same way, particularly when it comes to slow play.

This is not conducive to "growing the game" which I believe is also a common interest to the membership here. A person new to golf has to deal with not just learning how to hit the ball, but also how to measure-up to more experienced players expectations for etiquette and rules. New players don't know any better than to do the things that annoy more serious players, making bigger snobs out of the experienced player and making more embarrassment for the new player.

This leads me to take a pledge today to be more tolerant of slow play in the future. It's the least I could do.

And I think we should all be more tolerant of having children on the course too. If we pass the game on to our children the game will continue.

[Duncan Betts]

Shorter, interesting courses will grow the game.

Frankly, I don't think a beginner showing up to the latest championship course at 7500 yards, shooting 120 and losing 10 golf balls is going to entice them back.

[Mark Pritchett]

I think there is a better chance for getting people who already play golf, to play more often, rather than "growing" the game with new players. 

Most players I talk to would play more often if, big surprise here, you could play on average a bit faster and it were less costly.

Mark, I couldn't agree with you more. Time and money are the two main reasons I do not play golf very much anymore. In fact, the main issue is money - the damn game is just too expensive.

Mark and Dean,

What if a decent course starting offering 6 hole routings for a buck a hole?

Lot's of people would pass on that out of tradition. Perhaps another word for snob is traditionalist.

Garland,

My goal is to use common sense to gain understanding. Sorry if you feel I lack it.

Funny you mention six hole routings-most of my golf lately has been right before dusk playing a six hole loop at my home course.   I can walk by myself and finish in less than an hour. 

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