[Padraig Dooley]

I was walking a few holes the other day discussing architecture and strategy with a golfer. He said his main thoughts on the tee were only about trying to get the ball in play and didn't think about too much else.

Should you try and get him thinking about architecture? How is it explained to him and are these common thoughts by the 'average' golfer?

[Ronald Montesano]

Age-old question found in all walks of life.

What is golf's purpose for him? === If he wishes to simply get some exercise, probably little hope.

How much does he want to improve? ===If he has no desire to improve or doesn't wish to dedicate the time to truly get better, the elements of architecture will float away on the zephyrs of the land.

[Mac Plumart]

Padraig...GREAT question.  As I mentioned in a previous thread, I am so new to golf that I think I can REALLY relate to golfers like this.

I started getting into architecture when I was still way into the 20's as a handicap.  Being a competitive person and wanting to be successful my goal right from the start was to be a scratch golfer within 5 years of starting.  

But as I started studying architecture, I began to realize that what I really wanted to do was golf well enough to be able to appreciate quality architecture.  Think about it...if you can't hit the ball where you want to, how can you appreciate a well designed golf course?  How can you appreciate a great risk/reward decision?  I don't think I could at a 20ish handicap...as all I wanted to do was keep the ball in play.  And now that I am approaching single digits, I am able to appreciate quality architecture more...but I've still got a ways to go.

So, how do you get him interested in architecture?  I am unsure...some people simply aren't interested.  Some people like the challenge/competition more than the architecture.  

What is his basic mentality towards golf?  He wants to score well.  He wants to get exercise.  He wants to spend time with friends.  He wants to play the best courses in the area.

Observe that and see if you can segue into architecture.  And maybe the idea of being able to play well enough to appreciate quality courses might work.

[Mike Benham]

90-95% of golfers don't have beards ...

[Mark Molyneux]

Padraig-
I know what you mean. At various times, I find myself on the course with all levels of players. Were I to point out the essential considerations around a redan hole to a guy who's best prospect is getting there in two shots, I'm probably wasting my time. However, if I find myself with a different player who is faced with a decision that the architect probably wanted to impose on a player of his caliber, I might mention something to him. Before all the rules guys jump on that last one, let me suggest that me and that "different player" are a team playing our better ball against another twosome so we're allowed to exchange advice. If I'm at a club for the first time with someone who knows about a false front to a green but fails to mention it, I don't feel good about that. The strategic considerations around a medial bunker or a split fairway are fodder for discussion.
As with any other sort of information, the other guy has to have a conceptual framework to appreciate what you're saying. Otherwise, he'll remember me as "the annoying guy who wouldn't shut up". On the other hand, "growing the game" to me means more than just a willingness to play with all levels of players and to be encouraging. It means to share some the beauty and complexities and strategy of golf.
It happened for me in an informal round late this season at Bethpage Red when the folks in my group took the time to explain a long four with a split fairway and the attendant risks with going right versus left. It can be as simple as my telling a relative newbie that many of the greens at a particular course tilt just slightly to be more receptive to approach shots and that has implications for the way putts may break.
I think it's a matter of knowing your audience and his or her awareness and interest.
Mark

[Padraig Dooley]

Age-old question found in all walks of life.

What is golf's purpose for him? === If he wishes to simply get some exercise, probably little hope.

How much does he want to improve? ===If he has no desire to improve or doesn't wish to dedicate the time to truly get better, the elements of architecture will float away on the zephyrs of the land.

Ronald

Even if he doesn't want to improve, can he still not be interested in architecture?

[Jason Connor]

I appreciate good architecture and to the extent this novice can, its subtleties.  But I'm a 15 handicapper and I"m just happy getting my tee shot in the fairway.  I may consider distance -- i.e. hitting a hybrid to the fairway rather than thoughtlessly pulling driver out of the bag -- but otherwise I don't think my game allows me to do much in the way of setting up for my next shot.  I do pay attention to contours and factor in where the better miss is or where I might get a kick and additional role, but I'm not sure how strategic that is -- it just seems like common sense.

[Tom_Doak]

Jason:

A lot of people find they play better when they focus on more specific target for their tee shot than "just trying to hit the fairway".  Maybe you should try to focus more.  Thinking about architecture is one way to set better goals for yourself, but, it's not the only way.

No matter how good or bad you are, you can still save yourself some strokes by the end of the day if you approach each hole according to your own abilities.

[Bill_McBride]

I appreciate good architecture and to the extent this novice can, its subtleties.  But I'm a 15 handicapper and I"m just happy getting my tee shot in the fairway.  I may consider distance -- i.e. hitting a hybrid to the fairway rather than thoughtlessly pulling driver out of the bag -- but otherwise I don't think my game allows me to do much in the way of setting up for my next shot.  I do pay attention to contours and factor in where the better miss is or where I might get a kick and additional role, but I'm not sure how strategic that is -- it just seems like common sense.

Jason, don't you ever stand on the tee and note that the pin on the green is set back left behind a deep bunker and therefore try to hit your tee shot down the right side of the fairway?

If you do, you are using the architecture to your benefit!

[George Pazin]

First off, whatever works for one person doesn't necessarily work for another, so maybe this gent has just figured out what works for him.

Having said that, I'm a pretty mediocre golfer, but I try to be pretty ambitious when it comes to planning. Now executing, on the other hand...

[Michael Huber]

I stink pretty badly.

Just because I'm just hoping that my ball ends up somewhere playable at a reasonable distance does not mean I don't care or don't like to think about architecture.

[John Moore II]

I was walking a few holes the other day discussing architecture and strategy with a golfer. He said his main thoughts on the tee were only about trying to get the ball in play and didn't think about too much else.

Should you try and get him thinking about architecture? How is it explained to him and are these common thoughts by the 'average' golfer?

Padraig-Seems to me he is thinking about architecture all ready. After all, he wouldn't be very much "in play" if he were over in the timber, or the water or in a deep bunker now would he?

[Padraig Dooley]

I was walking a few holes the other day discussing architecture and strategy with a golfer. He said his main thoughts on the tee were only about trying to get the ball in play and didn't think about too much else.

Should you try and get him thinking about architecture? How is it explained to him and are these common thoughts by the 'average' golfer?

Padraig-Seems to me he is thinking about architecture all ready. After all, he wouldn't be very much "in play" if he were over in the timber, or the water or in a deep bunker now would he?

John, his main concern was not to lose a ball, he just said he never put much thought on whether he should try to play left, right, short or long, just that he got it into play. Is it the case the average golfer doesn't think how you play the golf course is appreciating architecture in itself?

[Mike Benham]

No matter how good or bad you are, you can still save yourself some strokes by the end of the day if you approach each hole according to your own abilities.

Mike likes this ...

[John Moore II]

I was walking a few holes the other day discussing architecture and strategy with a golfer. He said his main thoughts on the tee were only about trying to get the ball in play and didn't think about too much else.

Should you try and get him thinking about architecture? How is it explained to him and are these common thoughts by the 'average' golfer?

Padraig-Seems to me he is thinking about architecture all ready. After all, he wouldn't be very much "in play" if he were over in the timber, or the water or in a deep bunker now would he?

John, his main concern was not to lose a ball, he just said he never put much thought on whether he should try to play left, right, short or long, just that he got it into play. Is it the case the average golfer doesn't think how you play the golf course is appreciating architecture in itself?

Of course how you play the course is enjoying the architecture, even if you don't realize it. But he always has to think about where he hits his shots. I mean, if he has a bunker down the right side in his range for whatever club he's about to hit, he has to think about avoiding that bunker. So in that way, he's seeing the architecture. Now, it may be that he misses the fact that if he played closer to the bunker he could have a shorter shot into the green, but thats not the point. Its really not possible to play a golf course and not see something of the architecture.

[Tim Bert]

I find that at my ability (GHIN says 11 though I couldn't play to that tomorrow) I can not hit a target off the tee. As Tom mentioned thinking about a target may help me but I am almost equally likely to miss 20-30 yards left or right of my target on any given hole. I would be better off playing to the middle of the fairway (or one side in the case of extreme penalty on the other side like OB) no matter what the strategy of the hole dictates (except on a wide open playing field with no rough, trees, hazards,etc). In more cases than not I would venture to guess that my interest in the architecture works against me on tee shots.  In other words, I can't execute properly. 

I think it is the exact opposite the closer I get to the hole.  I have more control over the shorter approaches and by the time I get to short irons and wedges and putters I have enough confidence or belief in my ability to put the ball in the general area that paying attention to the architecture aids me rather than hurts me.

All in all I consider it a net wash or slight positive to my overall game when compared to my years of being oblivious to the architecture. If I could either improve my accuracy off the tee or else bring myself not to aim for the preferred spot in the fairway every time then it would move from a slight positive to a definite positive.   

[Mac Plumart]

Tim...

that is what I mean in my post by playing well enough to appreciate quality golf course architecture.  I am currently an 11.5 and there are days when I sink putts and there are days when I have a real good short game going.  But it is rare that I can precisely place my tee shot.  It is rare that I can precisely place a faded 4 iron right on a spot, or draw a 5 iron to a precise spot.  I can do it from time to time...and when I have all those things going I get real close to breaking 80...but not yet.

That is my goal...to be able to do those things...and try to take advantage of the risk/reward options I am seeing. 

I also find it interesting that Tom D says that you have to know your limitations/abilities.  While reading George Thomas tonight he says the following..."Wise is the man who knows how to play each hole as he should play it, and skillful is the golfer who can place his shots after he knows where they should go."

Frankly, I am lacking in both those areas.  I need more patience and understanding of how to score.  Then I hope to begin to do some real battle with these architects/courses...and that sounds FUN to me!!  Until then, I will observe, practice, and try to appreciate.

Great sport isn't it?

[Tim Bert]

Having not learned the fundamentals as a child, not being a natural athlete, and as a busy father, I am becoming rapidly more open to the understand, appreciate, and play to your limitations phase of my game. Fora while I was convinced I should be able to get to a consistent mid to high single digit handicap. The harder I tried, the harder it got.

Now I just try to have fun and play at a decent pace, and every now and then a nice score pops out.

[archie_struthers]

 

Yo guys....."I'm just trying to get the ball in play"   probably as good a strategy for tee shots as exists

perhaps keeping it in play requires hitting a rescue ....or a three wood at times....

good architecture occasionally makes driver the wrong choice ...or the only one

[Mac Plumart]

Archie...agreed...isn't that George Thomas' point.  A wise man plays the hole as HE needs to.  I mess that up MOST of the time...but am hoping for wisdom with age.

[archie_struthers]

 


Ahhh grasshopper think of Nicklaus ...he could hit any shot he wanted most of the time....but didn't have to prove it !!!!

[Ken Moum]

Anymore the courses I play have narrow enough fairways, and the areas off the fairway are penal enough that the very best strategy for someone of my driving ability is to try to put the ball in the short grass.

I average only 44% of fairways hit, despite being a 9 handicap, so there isn't a whole lot of point in me aiming for half of a 20-yard fairway.

Regardless of what any architect intended as long as 25-30 yards is considered "normal" fairway width and ankle-deep rough is accepted as typical, only a foolhardy average player would worry about placement off the tee.

K

[Mike Wagner]

I would challenge that it's impossible to not think about the architecture (hazards, slopes, etc.) - it's all right there (sans blind shots).  The guy who's just trying to keep it in play sees slopes his shot calls for, he just doesn't see it all....yet.  It's one of the things that come with natural improvement and experience playing a course over and over.

[Bruce Katona]

Archie: "Keeping it idn play?"  Sometimes its a big step for some of our customers to "get it airborne"..

[Shawn Arlia]

In play im sure for him is avoiding hazards. he may hitting to a particular side of the fairway to avoid a bunker. Now he may not realize that the advantages and disadvantages of playing the way he does, but he essentially is watching the architecture and trying to figure out the best way avoid a big number. The architect may trick him and he could find himself with a much tougher shot that adds more strokes to his game. Eventually while he is only trying to keep his ball in play, he may subconsciencely play a hole a little bit different based on previous results.

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