[JESII]

Adam,

I'll jump in again to defend those of us that care about our score...and go on to suggest that those of you who do not are not actually playing golf...I know you didn't say you don't care about it, but you certainly never let an opportunity pass in minimizing it's importance.

The opportunity Behr was arguing for is simply how you get there.

I might shoot par with fairly modern equipment, but I am honest enough to realize that shooting 80 with hickories might be an equal accomplishment and if I were relegated to playing hickories I would try just as hard to shoot 80 as I try to shoot par today.

What has left golfers uninspired is that they are told all these different things will make the game easier and it's still hard as can be...they come into it thinking they can conquer it. Tell someone that the game is really difficult and they'll put less relaince on conquering it and just learn the process.

[Sean_A]

For those that quit out of playing poorly (whatever that means) be more in love with playing well or to a certain standard than the game itself?  This question isn't meant as a harsh criticism either - just requesting folks dig deeper into their reasons for disillusionment.

I can fully understand folks quiting because of too heavy an investment in time and money that golf requires.  

Me, I play less because my local club was not compelling golf, but I can't at the moment imagine quiting.

Ciao

Sean, good points.  You state correctly My dilemma.  For forty years I'd go play and knew that most of the time I'd play a certain level.  I loved playing but I also loved playing what I considered well.  Now i have to fall in love with the just  playing. I have good health and can still walk 36 holes for many days in a row. Upon reflection the course does make a difference.  When I play a good course it is easier to get up for it.  When the course lacks either interest or architectural appeal I am less interested and my mind wanders.  Somehow, I need to fall in love with being out with friends or being alone in the beauty of the day.  When you and I played B&B last year, I fell in love wioth the course.  What was disturbing was the way I played.  I never really got to see the course as it was meant to be played.  I enjoyed my time because I had good company but did not enjoy my golf.  All I wanted to do was go out again and see if I could delight in its architectural subtleties.  

Tommy

You have good reason for your scores rising and perhaps you shouldn't be so hard on yourself.  Afterall, you are only spoiling yourself!  Though I do have some sympathy for you.  Yesterday at Pennard I had five birdies and still scored 79 - a pathetic score with five birdies.  Its disappointing even for a guy like myself who has never really played competively beyond trying to win a few quid and taking the piss.  Still, a day at Pennard beats most things in life.

No worries about Burnham.  I am sure yo0u will be visiting RND and BUrnham is a short jauint away.  You will get more opportunities.

Jim

Honestly, I would be content to never have a score written down again - I prefer matchplay that large a margin.

Ciao

[JMEvensky]

I'll jump in again to defend those of us that care about our score...and go on to suggest that those of you who do not are not actually playing golf...I know you didn't say you don't care about it, but you certainly never let an opportunity pass in minimizing it's importance.

Not that you need my help with the defense,but I agree.

I'd also suggest that those who grew up caring about score are not the ones quitting the game.They're the ones Dave Schmidt is talking about--the serious hard cores.The ones for whom golf is a part of.

Heaven help us all if this group starts quitting the game.

[JESII]

I always need help...Adam just hasn't fired back yet for me to know how much...

[George Pazin]

Re: architectural difficulty, there are plenty of relatively easy options out there, at least I'm guessing there are. My home muni is a wonderful walk and not particularly difficult. It's hard enough to be fun, but you can easily play a ground game.

One of my most enlightening rounds was when I went out as a single and got thrown in with a regular foursome missing their fourth (surgery). You'd be hard pressed to find 4 players with such different games, yet we all had a terrific time. I like to imagine it was what a typical four ball across the pond would be like, except it was probably a little slower.

Regarding Mac's point about not understanding cost and time being a factor, I will simply say he is obviously much more successful than me at both business and marriage.

[Mac Plumart]

George...that was funny!! Probably not true, but funny!  But seriously, I go out as a single a lot and getting teamed up with random strangers on a golf course is generally fun and I have yet to not meet classy people.  This is part of why I like the game.  So, I think you make a great point there.

Jim S...I certainly can't say where Adam stands on the score issue, but of course it is important as that is the point of the game.  I've just seen too many people all consumed by it...good score=fun round; bad score=unhappy round...I hope I never get there.  Now, I try my best and I get disappointed with a bad shot (or a bad round), but try to not let it ruin the game for me.

JMEvensky...isn't Tom W's story exactly what you describe as an event that Heaven needs to help us on?  He is a life long golfer, with a successful competitive history in the game and now he doesn't like it much anymore.

But that is understandable...in fact, I've heard Arnold Palmer talk about golf not being much fun anymore due to his "poor play".  For me, I can't watch boxing, MMA, or anything like that anymore as I used to do things like that and be "good" at them and now I can't pick my leg up to do a basic kick.  It makes me sad to think about.  Maybe that is what is bumming Tom and Arnold out relative to golf. 

But frankly, it is precisely the basic characteristics of the game of golf that makes me able to enjoy it while not having all of my natural athletic abilitiies in tact anymore.  So, I can't run 6 minutes miles anymore.  I can't execute a spinning round house kick, I can't squat 300 plus pounds anymore...but I can play golf.

Anyway, if people want to quit...that is fine.  As long as they "want" to quit.  I've played in pain, with mega-painkillers in my system, but never pain free.  Why?  Because I WANTED to play!!!   That is all.  If I didn't have the desire or I found it not worth the effort, I wouldn't play.

If people don't want to play, fine.  What is wrong with that?

[Jud_T]

I can't imagine quitting as long as I'm physically able to swing a club.  That includes being one of those old codgers with a fake hip and a red flag on my cart that allows me to drive right up by the green.  Even when I can no longer make a backswing, I'd hit the ladies putting course at ST. Andrews and have a pint afterwards.  I don't buy the cost argument for those who really make it a priority.  Unless you are in a REALLY desperate situation, there is always a good twilight or nine hole deal to be had.  The real question is how we get more people to fall in love with the game to begin with...

[JESII]

The real question is how we get more people to fall in love with the game to begin with...

Tell them how hard it is...

[Adam Clayman]

Sully, we need not have this discussion again. Besides, the intent singled out those who care TOO much about their score. Do you want to defend those that feel the need to grind over their 2 foot putt for quadruple bogey in casual play?

See Paul Cowley's thread on getting back to the game.

Without architecture that inspires creative crafty plays, the interest in the sport is apparently based on an individuals results. In that way golf has mirrored our selfish society.

[JESII]

Adam,

No we don't need to have that conversation again...

I think the guy that tries to hard can be educated while I don't think the guy that doesn't try at all can.

What would he care about all the cool features Paul could create if he didn't care about using them to his advantage? 

I hope I am not presuming too much when I suggest that architecture is what we are supposed to interact with while trying to play the course...and by interact, I mean figure out how best to navigate...

[Mac Plumart]

Adam...

I think you hit the ball out of the park with this one...

"Without architecture that inspires creative crafty plays, the interest in the sport is apparently based on an individuals results."


I could blab on and on about this one, but I won't.  All I will say is that this is very profound.

Nice!

[Fred Gray]

I have been reading this thread and thinking about it. Today I think the number 1 reason people quit is money.

I am lucky. I belong to a nice private course with limited members (be nice if there were a few more active ones but)

When the mood strikes, I can go play. Excluding summer Saturday mornings, I can tee off within 15 minutes of lacing up my shoes. Normally we play in 3:30 hours unless we spend time screwing around when the course is empty. Getting out and playing, having a beer with my buddies after, I love this. Clears my head and helps keep me sane.

But it is expensive.

With the money for the private course I would have to call for times Monday mornings, slammed public courses always seem to take 5+ hours to play. The beers still work but the time and planning needed are a drain.

Public courses here seem to be too slow and beat up or too slow and expensive. There are 2 RTJ trail courses 30 minutes away but I play them less than once every 2 years. Slow and poor value. I know I am spoiled but if forced back to local public golf, I would not get the peace from it that I value.

Fred

[Dan Herrmann]

Tom Paul,
I love golf completely, and you'd beat me 7&6 9 times out of 10!  - even with my 'cap applied!

The nice thing about being me is I have low expectations and really enjoy myself when I shoot that occasional, rare sub-80 round.

Fred - That's exactly why I joined my first club, Riverside (Portland OR) back in 1988.   

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[jeffwarne]

 

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[/quote]

On one thread we're lamenting slow play and crowded public courses, on another players quitting the game.

There was an influx of new players (for a variety of reasons-some wrong) during the boom era of the 90's/ early 2000's.
It was inevitable that many would retreat to something more instantly gratifying.
Sadly, some operators bought into the NGF " a course a day for xxx years" mantra which was well...wrong.
many other courses were built to add "value" to otherwise not so valuable land.
Corrections are painful.... but that's why they call them corrections.
The game will be better off when the pretenders are gone and the game grows from its' grass roots level  at a slower,more sustainable pace .
I'd say a good indicator will be when people don't expect pro shops to sell $10+ cigars

I kind've enjoyed it when us golf nerds had the courses to ourselves

[Gary Slatter]

Adam,

I would never quit golf of my own accord. I am however being forced into retirement due to time constraints and more importantly expense.

Golf in general does take up too much time for a young(ish) man trying to make a living in a tough economy.

Then I have the problem of the expense of playing golf. There is not a club in our town that I can possibly afford to join. Even if I could afford the initiation, then I could not afford the cart fees every play or the caddies that are mandatory at most clubs in the area.

I wanted to play golf this morning with my brother but neither of us could justify the price to play 18 on a public or semi private course.

Dean
do you have te time to get as psrt time job at a golfcourse|?

[Scott Stearns]

im quitting golf to try to escape GCA

[Steve Lang]

I'll jump in again to defend those of us that care about our score...and go on to suggest that those of you who do not are not actually playing golf...I know you didn't say you don't care about it, but you certainly never let an opportunity pass in minimizing it's importance.

is your name really M. NyvleM Sullivan? 

I have to take umbrage at the suggestion that only "scorers" play golf..  guess amongst players, there's only winners and losers

[jim_lewis]

I am not surprised when I hear that someone has quit playing golf. The mystery to me is why so many play this damned game. When someone tells me they are starting to play, I urge them to quit now, while they still can.  Sometimes I cuss the guy who gave me my first set of clubs 55 years ago.
I know lots of retired guys who play almost everyday. I don't think most of them really enjoy the game that much. They just have nothing else to do, and staying home with their wives is not an attractive option. That's why those guys retired to the South where weather allows them to get out of the house and to the golf course almost every day.

[Mike Cirba]

im quitting golf to try to escape GCA

Ding, Ding, Ding...we have a winner!!!   

[Adam Clayman]

Try implies can't.

[Steve Strasheim]

Finding this subject interesting, I did a web search and found this article from a couple years back.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/21/nyregion/21golf.html?_r=1&ei=5087&em=&en=9c9070c4064e72a7&ex=1203829200&pagewanted=all

Seems the official line is that about 3 million quit each year and about 3 million start every year.  One excerpt:

"More troubling to golf boosters, the number of people who play 25 times a year or more fell to 4.6 million in 2005 from 6.9 million in 2000, a loss of about a third."

[Garland Bayley]

Finding this subject interesting, I did a web search and found this article from a couple years back.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/21/nyregion/21golf.html?_r=1&ei=5087&em=&en=9c9070c4064e72a7&ex=1203829200&pagewanted=all

Seems the official line is that about 3 million quit each year and about 3 million start every year.  One excerpt:

"More troubling to golf boosters, the number of people who play 25 times a year or more fell to 4.6 million in 2005 from 6.9 million in 2000, a loss of about a third."

So, do you think the play less because it takes more time, or because it costs too much?

[Steve Strasheim]

So, do you think the play less because it takes more time, or because it costs too much?

As I recall from the article, they concluded it was because it takes too much time. Some were even getting creative talking about 6-hole set ups in order to speed up the experience.

What I have been considering is why would someone who has the time and money give up the game. Except for death, or injury, it must be a personality disorder.

[Melvyn Morrow]

Steve

Would it have anything to do with playing on an average course but taking say 6 hours to get around and repeating week in week out.

Melvyn

[Mac Plumart]

Fred Gray post 63...I've been thinking about this post for awhile.  I think he hits the nail right on the head and maybe I am so igonorant and spoiled that I can't comprehend how fortunate I am.  Like him, I can be lacing up my shoes and on the first tee in fifteen minutes on my home (private) course from the time I decide I want to play.  Perhaps not everyone has this luxury, that I take for granted.  I will try never to forget this in the future...thanks Fred.

Also, Melvyn your posts opened my eyes.  You say, perhaps people quit becaue they play an average course that takes them 6 hours to play.  Well, if I had to have an experience like I had a TPC Sawgrass a few months ago...I might quit the game...and Sawgrass is ranked as one of the very best courses and my round only took 5 hours 15 minutes.  But my GOD it was slow and I had to hurry up and wait the hole time with groups right in front of us and a group pushing us from behind the hole round.  And I played pretty well, but that didn't matter...it wasn't fun and the inspiration of the course didn't overcome the lousy experience.

So again...I see your guys' points...and I will try not to forget them.

Solid!!

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