[Rick Sides]

My wife and I were watching the tournament yesterday from Riviera and couldn't help but laugh at the number of times Johnny Miller dropped the term "kikuyu" referring to the grass at Riviera.  We all know that the grass plays a role, but Vegas should set a line today regarding the number of times Johnny drops "kikuyu"  If I were a betting man, I would say the over/under is 8....any takers

[Phil_the_Author]

Rick,

I think you're not giving him enough credit at 8! I also wonder how many times that Frank Nobilo can pronounce it KY-Q...

[Kalen Braley]

My wife and I were watching the tournament yesterday from Riviera and couldn't help but laugh at the number of times Johnny Miller dropped the term "kikuyu" referring to the grass at Riviera.  We all know that the grass plays a role, but Vegas should set a line today regarding the number of times Johnny drops "kikuyu"  If I were a betting man, I would say the over/under is 8....any takers

Rick,

I'll take the over on that....I'd put it closer to 20.  He is indeed a man obsessed by often very silly things! 

[Tom_Doak]

Have you guys ever played on the stuff?  It is a factor on every shot that's not a putt.

[Lynn_Shackelford]

I agree with Tom here.  As a member for 15 years, it is golf played like no other course on the Tour.  The ball sits up on the fairways, it catches the club head in the rough.  Around the greens there is no chip and run possibilities.  And finally, if you short side yourself, the lob wedge is your only choice as you must carry the green, and even then you cannot get it close if the green runs away from you.  I have hit 3 irons into the stuff and the ball backed up.

I think rather than just mentioning it, Johnny should give us the "why" of how the shot and ball is affected by Kikuyu.  I think then you would find it less annoying.

[Kyle Harris]

Did anyone here know that Johnny Miller actually won the US Open in 1973 with a closing round record score of 63!?

Wow!

[Philippe Binette]

J. Miller was almost crying explaining the Tiger situation yesterday... come on !!!

didn't they imported kikuyu for the horse competition in the Olympics for its resistance... and then the situation got out of hand.

[Kalen Braley]

I think what many people take issue to is the constant references over and over and over again...its lazy broadcasting at its worst.

No different that the ka-gillion TV shots I'm sure they will show of Archie Mannings box tonight during the super bowl.  Its the whole thing of going after the low dangling fruit again and again and again.

[Bill_McBride]

Have you guys ever played on the stuff?  It is a factor on every shot that's not a putt.

Santa Barbara has two good examples.

George Thomas' La Cumbre CC is wall to wall kikuyu.  Every short game shot (and many full shots too) is affected by the stuff.  It's like velcro, you cannot flop a little pitch onto the first cut around the green to a downhill pin because odds are the ball won't get on the green.  I saw Tommy Armour make an 8 last year from the barranca by the green on #8 at Riv trying to pitch out of the stuff.

La Cumbre makes no effort to control the stuff.

By contrast, the Valley Club of Montecito has a crew out on the course every day looking for and eradicating kikuyu when they find it.  It has a great playing surface everywhere.

I have friends who are members of both clubs.  They don't wear their La Cumbre golf shoes at the Valley Club.

[Bob_Huntley]

Like Lynn, I was a member of Riviera for a few years and until you have played on the surface you have no idea of the problems it can cause. I was fortunate enough to have played on kikuyu in Africa and came well prepared.

Bob

[Adam Clayman]

I think what many people take issue to is the constant references over and over and over again...its lazy broadcasting at its worst.

No different that the ka-gillion TV shots I'm sure they will show of Archie Mannings box tonight during the super bowl.  Its the whole thing of going after the low dangling fruit again and again and again.

I believe what Tom and Lynn (and Johnny) are pointing out is how important this particular surface is on every shot/swing. If one is accustomed to it, they learn what they need to do to be successful from all possible lies. What's impressive is how many of the pros adapt so quickly to it, since it is rarely the turf they see, save for maybe Torrey Pines.

[C. Squier]

I'm just happy to hear a little GCA talk on the broadcast....hearing about grass beats the heck out of grooves.  Now if they could only form a consensus on how to pronounce the word.

The grass is unbelievable.  My first pitch shot at Riviera hit about 3 feet short of the green from 20 yards......needless to say, I wasn't able to mark my ball for my next shot.  All I could do was laugh.  It's absolutely imperative to land your shots on the green, no matter where the pin is.  If I sold 64* wedges, I'd put up a tent in Riv's parking lot.

[Josh Stevens]

Not my fav commentator, but i am on his side here.  I have just come back from South Africa (where Kyk comes from) and all courses in Johannesburg use it- it is as tough as old nails and so easy to grow.  Kyk is not too bad on the fairways if it is kept very very short, but they have had horrendous rain in Joburg in the last six weeks and so cant get machinery out too much and the grass is getting long - it is ghastly.

No running game and if you miss the green and it gets into the tangled stuff you need an axe to get out.  It is common in Sydney as it handles heat and humidity well, but it is a very different game

[Tom_Doak]

It would probably be better if the commentators waited until somebody hit a bad shot around the greens and then explained why, instead of always anticipating something bad MIGHT happen.

However, they are taught that not everybody is watching the tournament for two straight hours, so they have to repeat themselves every once in a while.  For some, that is a license to kill ...

[Mac Plumart]

Please accept my apologies, but I haven't read every post on this thread prior to typing this post...but I love Johnny Miller's commentary so much I simply have to post full of ignorant bliss.

First off, I love the experience and knowledge base he brings to the table.

Secondly, I love how he always brags on himself and his game...didn't he say he would have won an obscene amount of majors had he played in a different era?

Thirdly, he gets locked into a phrase that he repeats it so much it gets hilarious.  Remember "trap draw" at the Tour Championship.  Oh my, he said that a hundred times if he said it once.  And now Kikuyu...it is the best!!  I've seen people get annoyed by this trait, but if you treat it like a drinking game criteria (that is take a shot, or a drink of beer every time he says it) I think you could see how it would be entertaining if you were/are into that type of stuff.

Anyway, sorry if this veers the thread off track!

[Rick Sides]

I have not played Riviera- it is on my list list one day, and I'm sure Kikuyu plays a big role.  I just think it's so funny that my wife , who doesn't golf, got such a kick out of Johnny's obsession with this funny named grass.  Mac, I also remember the "trap draw" fixation Johnny had during that tournament- funny stuff!

[Michael Huber]

I wonder if his obsession with kikuyu is in any way related to his constant use of "eh rog?" or "eh mark?" or "eh jim" and so on and so forth.

[Kevin Pallier]

I've played on kikuyu all my life but was still not prepared for that at Riviera

[Will MacEwen]

When the Tour shifts to Florida, listen for how much JM talks about grain. 

[Lynn_Shackelford]

J. Miller was almost crying explaining the Tiger situation yesterday... come on !!!

didn't they imported kikuyu for the horse competition in the Olympics for its resistance... and then the situation got out of hand.

Most think that, but it is my understanding that Elizabeth Taylor rode her horse on regular turf and that the import from Africa was to stabilize the canyon cliffs and hillsides surrounding the course.  Little did they know the impact.  I think there are more kikuyu lawns in front yards of Pacific Palisades than not.

[Mike Cirba]

So, does anyone have a final tally?   

[Justin Ryan]

I've played on kikuyu all my life but was still not prepared for that at Riviera

Kev, I've played a bit on it as well and I couldn't possibly imagine a worse combination than the American overuse of long grass as a hazard and kikuyu. It just sounds horrendous.

Still, if you can keep it back from the greens to promote short game options, it can work well in addressing the distance problem.

[Mac Plumart]

I am unsure of the exact tally of kikuyu references, but I think I can say this with pretty solid confidence…

If Johnny Miller could have hit the trap draw off of this kind of kikuyu, then that 63 he put up at Oakmont (which took place after God spoke to him and told him to open up his stance) would have been nothing.  In fact, I probably shouldn't say this, but if he had played in the [Greg] Norman-[Nick] Faldo era, instead of winning 25 times with two majors, he probably would have won 40 times and had six majors.  And my God, Ben Hogan has to be rolling over in his grave about the state of golf today.  I mean think about it, guys with swings like Rocco Mediate almost walked home with a US Open Trophy.  C’mon the guy came to the 2008 US Open looking like the guy who cleans Tiger's swimming pool.  And Craig Perry may not make Ben Hogan roll over in his grave, in fact Mr. Perry’s swing just might make Mr. Hogan “puke”.   And, heck, Justin Leonard should just go home!!!


Of course, but just to make sure everyone knows, these are all quotes of facsimiles of quotes from the man himself…Johnny Miller!!!

You’ve got to love it!!!

[rjsimper]

The grass plays more of a roll in lies around the green and in the rough than any other single factor. It's no different than a windy day and the broadcasters indicating how the wind will affect the ball's flight.

There are few shots more difficult to gauge than the mid-length pitch shot with a SW and the ball sitting on the very top of the grass. The chances of catching it a few grooves too high are significant.

It's certainly worth mentioning to the viewers at home why a ball that is 100% visible may be tough to hit properly, since we're so often trained to think, with the overgrown grasses pervading the tour, that invisible ball is the only symptom of tough lie.

[Joe Bausch]

Did anyone here know that Johnny Miller actually won the US Open in 1973 with a closing round record score of 63!?

Wow!

But wasn't there some 'watering issue' that help enabled that fantastic round? 

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