"Top" Drivable Par-4's

[Mac Plumart]

Thanks very much.  I've given a lot of myself to the game and have already reaped a lot of benefits from it...most notable friendships and fun.  I really appreciate the kind words...I hope I can continue to improve and enjoy the game.

Thanks again!

[Mac Plumart]

To get this thread back on track...

the 12th at the Pete Dye Golf Club is an interesting short par 4.  Green is blind from the tee box and front by a bunker (which of course you can't see due to a huge hill between the tee box and the green)...you can give it a shot...or hit 3 iron (or so) around the hill and come in from the side.

[Eric Smith]

Here's a fun one:



Hilton Head National #6 (Weed Nine)
Black: 298
Blue: 273
White: 254

You can play it safe out to the left but blindness increases the further you play away from the water.  Great gambling hole!

[Jon Wiggett]

I find it interesting that many of the examples are 290/300+. Is this a distance you expect to drive most of the time. There is a difference in my book between a drivable hole and a hole you can drive but only rarely.

[Mac Plumart]

Jon...

To me the temptation is the idea that maybe, just maybe I can drive it...but the risk/reward must be severe if you miss it.

I played Indian Wells Celebrity Course awhile back...it had a 240 yard par 4 hole, with bunkers ranging from 150 yards to 200 yards.  No bunkers right in front of the green and the green was not severe.  With the fairway VERY fast and firm, I saw many people bounce a 3 wood just past the 200 yard bunkers and roll the ball up to the green.  To me that is awful...very little risk and a bunch of reward.

I can't recall the Pete Dye Golf Club of WV 12th hole yardage, but I think it was 270ish.  Which is certainly drivable, but due to blindness and the bunkering...it has a hell of a risk, but a real nice reward.

I'll take the PDGC style par 4 everytime.

What are your thoughts on drivable par 4's?

[Jon Wiggett]

Temptation,

yes Mac, you are correct. But temptation is more about if a shot that I think I might/should/could pull off will happen and not now and again I bash it out there 330. Drivable for me means I expect to be able to hit the ball the distance required.

[Mac Plumart]

Jon...

I agree for the most part.  You mention that you want the shot to be what you feel you might/should/could pull off...I like the temptation to be focused on a shot that I could pull off if I hit it perfect.  This makes the risk that much more.  But that is just me...

Eric's post of Hilton Head National is interesting.  270ish yards with danger EVERYWHERE.  Lay up and hit 3 iron (or less) or take the risk.  Perfect for my taste!!! 

I agree that 330+ is too much for me...I will lay up 100% of the time with no second thoughts.

The short and/or drivable par 4's are my favorite holes!!!

[Jon Wiggett]

Mac,

I know what you mean and there is a lot of satisfaction to be gained out of pulling off a shot that is right at the limits of your ability. I prefer the holes that you feel you should be able to master but are so subtle that you fail in the attempt very often. Such holes are even better if the safe play is real easy to do. You can play safe with a 99% chance of a decent score but the better than decent scoring route looks too easy to pass up though you know it isn't. The dilema......

[Mac Plumart]

Jon...

You've just nailed the biggest weakness in my game.   

I mentioned above I hit the stupid shot most of the time.  On the hole you allude to, I would see the 5% probability of hitting that green and I would go for it.  I am working on taking some time and thinking about the appropriate strategy for each hole and each shot, but I still find it hard to calm down and think strategically while playing.  Heck, I don't want to play too slow!!!   

Just kidding on the last sentence, but in all sincerity being able to employ the correct strategy for each hole will be the next level in my game.

Great post/thread!!

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

Jon...

You've just nailed the biggest weakness in my game.   

I mentioned above I hit the stupid shot most of the time.  On the hole you allude to, I would see the 5% probability of hitting that green and I would go for it.  I am working on taking some time and thinking about the appropriate strategy for each hole and each shot, but I still find it hard to calm down and think strategically while playing.  Heck, I don't want to play too slow!!!   

Just kidding on the last sentence, but in all sincerity being able to employ the correct strategy for each hole will be the next level in my game.

Great post/thread!!

Mac:

It all depends on what the stakes are.

If it's a casual round, you've nothing to lose, so there's nothing too wrong with going with the 5% possibility. It's very difficult to lay up when you know that if you hit a really good shot, you can make the green. I don't think you can be faulted for going for it. If you pull it off, you'll have a spring in your step for the rest of the round. If you don't make it, it's no big deal. There's nothing worse than playing safe and making a total balls of it.

If it's a competition and you're more interested in your score, well then you do have to be more cautious. It all depends on the circumstances.

You'll find that you will make the right decisions more often as you gain experience. You can only learn from your mistakes.

Dónal.

[Mac Plumart]

Donal...great point!!

[Mark Pritchett]

[Jon Wiggett]

Mac,

this is where I feel you learn a lot more about strategy when playing matchplay as it requires you to look at the situation a fresh each time you play the hole and factor in how you are playing that day, how your apponent is, the standing of the game and if your apponent has the honour then where he has hit his ball. Strokeplay just doesn't give you the same education so to improve your professed weakness just play lots of matchplay. Have fun

[Garland Bayley]

TPC Scottsdale's #17 is pretty good.

It makes you think no matter what option you choose. The pin placement matters a lot, because if the hole is back left then hitting driver is just insane. If the pin is anywhere else then it's a more typical risk/reward situation. You have a pot bunker in the middle of the fairway that you must carry if you're going for it--there's water left (but only troubling shots that get next to the green so it's no disincentive for lay-ups) and lots of room right, but also lots of tough lies and strange angles from that "safe" side.

If you want to lay up, it's not as simple as many such holes where you just knock a long iron out into the fairway. The fairway is very wide but with lots of potential angles and trouble on the edges, as well as the aforementioned center pot bunker.

What is that on the left? A copy of a church pew bunker? I'm sorry, but anything that copies the church pew bunker is not in line to be the best of anything!

[Garland Bayley]

Of course the list given is nonsense. They go to the top courses in the world and suggest some holes that might be drivable par 4s. They make the list only because they are on a top course, not because they are even a reasonable drivable par 4.

If they want to find the real gems they have to go way out of their way where they might find the "make your own dell hole" drivable par 4 at Astoria CC.