Designing in thirds

[Mark Alexander]

When a development is laid out in three nines, does the architect go out of their way to create three separate golfing experiences or are design elements employed throughout the 27 holes to create continuity?

This hasn't kept me up at night, but it is something I've always wanted to know. Your thoughts would be most welcome.

[Anthony Gray]

  My home course goes through a neighborhood and has 3 different styles. It is fun because the character and challenges of the course change. Spyglass is a course that comes to mind where the design changes.

  Anthony

[cary lichtenstein]

I 've never played a 27 hole course that i truly enjolyed. Anyone???

[Gary Slatter]

have to agree with Cary, I have never played a 27 holer that I liked either.  Usually two nines are OK but not memorable.  York Downs in Toronto has three similar nines (bad compared to the fantastic course York Downs left behind when they moved to the country), another course in Calgary has three very different nines, but mostly all bad too!
Must be difficult to operate if people prefer certain routings - i.e. I like the Red and Blue courses but today they are playing Blue White rota.

[John Foley]

How many 27 holers are that from the start? Aren't many a 9 hole add on or "we ran out of money / land and could do 36?"

The Nicklaus Ritz /  Dove mountain course is supposed to be 36 once the member ship gets to a certain level they will build the already designed last 9

[Tom_Doak]

The best 27-hole course I know of is Ridgewood.  Ironically, I think that being 27 holes keeps it out of the limelight, because nobody can decide which is "the" course that must be ranked.

Brookline solves this by having a U.S. Open Composite course, but in most settings, that would undermine the point of having 27 holes.

[Mike Cirba]

Two courses that were originally eighteen that then turned into 27's on the same plot of land are sad stories in the case of Timber Point (NY) and Tililnghast's Shawnee (PA).

Hopefully, the latter will be restored to eighteen as originally planned because it sure ain't much but random smatterings of cool holes and features here and there as a 27-holer, and it sure gets dangerous in spots.

Timber Point is also fully recoverable, but being owned by the municipality, that is unlikely to ever happen.

[Emil Weber]

Isn't the Country Club a 27-hole course? I mean the 1913 US Open one, don't know where it is 

[Kevin Pallier]

Mark

I've seen a few - yes some of the nine's aren't as high a calibre across the board but still among the few I liked:
GB&I
The Wisley
Cruden Bay
Princes
Stoke Park
Kendelshire

Aust
Joondalup
Royal Pines
Corowa

Some architects above have employed a different style - yet others have kept the same general approach.

[David_Tepper]

27- hole Poppy Ridge golf course (Livermore, CA) was designed by Rees Jones and built for the Nor.Cal. G.A. 15-20 years ago. I would say the design elements of all 3 nines (the merits of which are debatable are consistent throughout. Since the terrain on all 3 nines is similar, that is not too surprising.

Just recently, I came across a website for a 27-hole golf complex that proudly said how different each of the 3-nines were.  It sounded like each of the nines was built on different terrain. Sorry, but I cannot remember the name of the course or where it was located.

   

[Ryan Admussen]

have to agree with Cary, I have never played a 27 holer that I liked either.  Usually two nines are OK but not memorable.  York Downs in Toronto has three similar nines (bad compared to the fantastic course York Downs left behind when they moved to the country), another course in Calgary has three very different nines, but mostly all bad too!
Must be difficult to operate if people prefer certain routings - i.e. I like the Red and Blue courses but today they are playing Blue White rota.

Which course in Calgary?

I enjoy all 27 at Heritage Pointe just outside of Calgary.

[D_Malley]

a couple of decent 27's in PA are Buck Hill Falls and Silver Creek

many people believe that the red 9 at BHF is inferior to the other two 9's, but i personally like the red.

[Ed Oden]

Huntingdon Valley is a wonderful 27 hole course.  I don't have anywhere near the depth of experience at HVCC that some on this board possess.  But I would describe the 3 nines as consistent, but different.  The A and B nines are the most similar (which is to be expected given the club's history), although the fairways generally cant in opposite directions.  And the C nine is on a different portion of the property and is tougher in my opinion.  Hopefully some of the folks who know HVCC more intimately than I do will chime in.

Ed

[David_Tepper]

Ridgewood CC in New Jersey, designed by AW Tillinghast, likely is on the short list of the best 27-hole properties in the U.S.  I have never played or seen it, but I know a number of GCA-ers have. It hosted a U.S. Senior Open (10-15 years ago?) and a PGA Tour event (in 2008, I think). I am not sure, but I think holes from all 3-nines were used for the composite-18 for those events.
       

[Ally Mcintosh]

When I see clubs market themselves as a genuine 27 hole course (with 3 variations on 18), then I'm of the opinion that it more often than not just confuses the general golfer... The most successful (in quality anyway) 27 hole facilities that I know have a top-class 18 and then just make sure that their nine hole course is a cracker too... Portmarnock and Morfortaine come to mind... Often this then provides a good day's golf for a visitor as they sample all 27 holes...

[Mark Alexander]

What struck me about the possible benefits of the 27-holer was that, on paper at least, it provided variation - an opportunity to tailor your golfing experience with a degree of self-determined variety.
My initial question was directed at architects asking whether they took this idea on board during the design stage (ie designing three separate experiences) or whether the process was more akin to designing a 27-hole course.
It would seem, in general, the principle of three nine-hole courses has limited appeal, which is a shame but I suppose it depends on the variants that dictate the quality of all new courses - the quality of the site, the budget and the designer's ability.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

I think it works well at St George's Hill (there are 27 holes surviving from an original 36) in that the third nine is very much a lesser course, suitable for those who might want to play only a few holes or senior golfers for whom the length and hilliness of the big course is no longer feasible. It's a relief course. So these thirds are far from equal.

Also a part-Colt course, Kennemer is a 27 complex. Personally, I did not enjoy the Van Hengel (A) course (which I have only played once) as much as the B-C course (which I have played several times), but I think there may have been work to the A course. If it's Frank Pont's work it should be a much improved course. I'd be interested in the views of Mike Clayton who has probably played the Dutch Open there on a course drawn from all three nines.

The Wisley is a fairly good example in that each of the nines is of roughly comparable merit. Whether you like the course and its style is a different matter, but of its kind it is good. The three nines at Princes are also pretty equal.

How about Burnham and Berrow, Sean?

I have been lucky enough to play Ridgewood, but not all 27 holes, only 18.

[Matt Bosela]

Hamilton G&CC in Ancaster, Ontario has to be Canada's finest 27-hole facility but as pointed out above, it's another example of a course that was routed as an 18 hole course then had nine holes added long afterwards.

The original 18 was routed by Harry Colt then sixty years later, the club had Robbie Robinson come in and build an additional nine.  The original 18 is the course that has been used for the Canadian Open over recent years and makes up the routing that puts the course within the top five in Canada.  I haven't played the course so I can't speak of the difference in quality between the Colt 18 and the Robinson 9 but I'd imagine it's significant.

[Tim Nugent]

Mark, since no one seems to be answering your question, I'll bite.

From my experience, it has to do with what the reasoning for 27 is.  If it is to appeal to a wider spectrum of golfing ability, then the 3 nines should get progressivey harder, with the "middle" nine being the "back" nine for the easy course and the "front" nine for the hard course.

If it because of demand, (I did one where they needed 3 nines due to after work 9-hole leagues) then you try to get all three relatively equal.  This can be taxing on the designer as you like to get variety but still have a sense of commonality amoungst the holes.

The nice thing about 27 is it offers a great deal of flexibility in operations.  You can just close 9 when doing invasive maintenance(spraying, aerifying) or have a place for regulars to play if there is an outing. And with 27, there is an economy of scale in maintenance so it isn't as expensive as 18 (or 36).