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Kyle Henderson

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Riviera"s 8th hole "modified" once again
« on: February 02, 2010, 01:14:33 AM »
http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2010/2/1/the-revamped-8th-at-riviera-2010-edition.html

Who has played or at least seen the latest iteration in person? What say ye?
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Alex Miller

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Re: Riviera"s 8th hole "modified" once again
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2010, 01:42:29 AM »
My eyes are sore from the pics.

Horrible puns +1

Having played it before, I think the hole was fine, perhaps the left fairway a little too narrow to encourage golfers to play there. Since tour pros all have such good distance control, they can fly the false front from the right fairway and worry less about the baranca, so the left route should be made more appealing, though not like this.

P.S. I actually liked the trees on this hole, they had strategic merit.
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Kevin Pallier

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Re: Riviera"s 8th hole "modified" once again
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2010, 01:42:45 AM »
Kyle

I must admit is did feel a littel bit "out of character" with the rest of the course.

I haven't seen the previous version with the trees dissecting the fairway.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2010, 05:52:49 AM by Kevin Pallier »
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Jordan Wall

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Re: Riviera"s 8th hole "modified" once again
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2010, 03:57:23 AM »
Apparently this was closer to the original version than the version with the trees.

I have not seen this new version but I wasn't a huge fan of the trees splitting the fairway.  If anything, I would only think the stream improves the hole.
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Richard Hetzel

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Re: Riviera"s 8th hole "modified" once again
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2010, 05:52:13 AM »
The "line of sand" that is fronting itself as a stream just isn't doing it for me. Looks very contrived and of of place. Needs water, high quality H2O!
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Anthony_Nysse

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Re: Riviera"s 8th hole "modified" once again
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2010, 05:54:05 AM »
Ill be there on early Friday and I'll try to take pics.
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Anthony J. Nysse
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Michael Taylor

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Re: Riviera"s 8th hole "modified" once again
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2010, 06:05:12 AM »
It was Fazio that did the work, correct?

Pup
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Mike Cirba

Re: Riviera"s 8th hole "modified" once again
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2010, 06:56:25 AM »
Who changed the zoning laws to run an open sewer through the golf course?

« Last Edit: February 02, 2010, 11:49:03 AM by Mike Cirba »
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PThomas

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Re: Riviera"s 8th hole "modified" once again
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2010, 09:16:19 AM »
i thought the old version was fine when i played it
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Bill_McBride

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Re: Riviera"s 8th hole "modified" once again
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2010, 09:46:19 AM »
It would be good to see the kikuyu scraped out of the wash and restored to its original sandy condition, at least what I've seen of photos.  This new iteration wouldn't be as bad if the dividing hazard were deeper and wider.   And wilder.  It's pretty tame looking now.
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Steve Burrows

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Re: Riviera"s 8th hole "modified" once again
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2010, 10:28:49 AM »
It just looks so engineered, which is odd to say given that the original Thomas design was one of the more engineered, manufactured courses in America.  The width of the channel is uniform, as is its slope, and the visible rip-rap at the beginning and end of the hole is a visual abomination.  It seems like being less OVERTLY concerned with the physical properties of draining the barranca and more with "visuality" could have benefited the project.

I know for a fact that Matt Morton, the superintendent, is committed to displaying a quality product at Riviera, so maybe it's just a matter of letting the work mature for a few more years 
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Jon Spaulding

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Re: Riviera"s 8th hole "modified" once again
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2010, 10:32:33 AM »
From the desk of Our Emporer a while back......

The shaping looks like a mix of the Nicklaus course at PGA West and Ted Robinson on a light dose of acid.





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Ian Larson

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Re: Riviera"s 8th hole "modified" once again
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2010, 11:24:44 AM »
All hail The Emporer!! Jon, which is the before and after with tis round of modifications?
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Tim Nugent

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Re: Riviera"s 8th hole "modified" once again
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2010, 12:56:32 PM »
Bill McBride seems to have hit the nail right on the head.  Although I would probably perfer to hit out of a sandy briancca than long kikuia, but they probably figured that the grass would be better at erosion control.  Note the overly small diameter pipe in the check dam disguised as a bridge.  It's purpose is to slow the speed and volume of water.  This has ENGINEER written all over it so I wouldn't blame Fazio in total.   I'm also sure the "committee had lots of imput and got just what they asked for.
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Kyle Henderson

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Re: Riviera"s 8th hole "modified" once again
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2010, 01:31:47 PM »
Quote from: Bill_McBride on February 02, 2010, 09:46:19 AM
It would be good to see the kikuyu scraped out of the wash and restored to its original sandy condition, at least what I've seen of photos.  This new iteration wouldn't be as bad if the dividing hazard were deeper and wider.   And wilder.  It's pretty tame looking now.

The barrance was piped underground by the Army Corp. of Engineers due to persistent erosion/flooding problems. It would be cool to see it restored, but perhaps at a reduced depth from the original hazard to balance maintenance/safety issues with aesthetics and playability/penalty/strategy considerations. The "all-kikuya" version of the barranca from a few years back provided little penalty, as it was trimmed at the same height as the regular rough.

Obviously, if the barraca is "restored" on the 8th, it should be "restored" throughout the entire course. Was this "sandy stream" seen here added to any of the other holes?

When I played the course in 2008, the left fairway required a fade to a tight fairway with trees along both sides, while the right fairway was very wide and inviting. If they would have merely tightened that right fairway a bit, the decision from the tee would have been much more difficult and interesting. I'm fine with the loss of the trees on the barraca side of the left fairway, but the new shaping is very busy looking and totally out of character. From what I can see, the new bunkers are also awkwardly shaped.
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Jordan Wall

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Re: Riviera"s 8th hole "modified" once again
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2010, 01:42:22 PM »
Isn't the barrance eventually to be filled with much more water, to stay in touch with the original design!?

And if so, is this not just the first stage of making this happen?

For those who have the book on Riviera, look at the pictures of the original hole, which is a lot closer to what it is now than with all the trees in the middle of the fairway.
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Steve Burrows

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Re: Riviera"s 8th hole "modified" once again
« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2010, 02:28:10 PM »
Quote from: Jordan Wall on February 02, 2010, 01:42:22 PM
Isn't the barrance eventually to be filled with much more water, to stay in touch with the original design!?

And if so, is this not just the first stage of making this happen?

For those who have the book on Riviera, look at the pictures of the original hole, which is a lot closer to what it is now than with all the trees in the middle of the fairway.

Jordan,

As you mention, this attempt at restoration (or whatever one wants to call it) is much more in line with the original conception of the hole.  However, the current path of storm water drainage, and the amounts of water collected on account of exponentially larger amounts of impermeable surface in this sub-watershed since the creation of the golf course, has almost nothing to do with how the barranca was originally utilized.  The massive flooding from decades ago occurred when the above ground channel (the barranca) was where the water would flow on the surface.  This is no longer the case (it is now underground), and so its usage as a collection channel is largely superfluous.
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...to admit my mistakes most frankly, or to say simply what I believe to be necessary for the defense of what I have written, without introducing the explanation of any new matter so as to avoid engaging myself in endless discussion from one topic to another.     
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Ian Larson

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Re: Riviera"s 8th hole "modified" once again
« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2010, 02:40:21 PM »
George Thomas' sketch of his 8th from the Riviera history book with the shot option lines overlayed....

ps....if this is the way to restore/renovate/restovate/engineer/butcher a sandy wash, it will be interesting to see how Gil and Geoff do it down the street at LACC if that is still part of the restoration there. Someone just made a good point with did they do this to the other holes? Does a sandy wash just pop up on one hole when it was flowing through the entire property?


« Last Edit: February 02, 2010, 02:47:08 PM by Ian Larson »
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Bill_McBride

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Re: Riviera"s 8th hole "modified" once again
« Reply #18 on: February 02, 2010, 03:35:30 PM »
Quote from: Bill_McBride on February 02, 2010, 09:46:19 AM
It would be good to see the kikuyu scraped out of the wash and restored to its original sandy condition, at least what I've seen of photos.  This new iteration wouldn't be as bad if the dividing hazard were deeper and wider.   And wilder.  It's pretty tame looking now.

Check out the Thomas drawing just above to see what I had in mind by "wider" and "wilder!"

OMG what a golf hole that is!
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Sean Leary

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Re: Riviera"s 8th hole "modified" once again
« Reply #19 on: February 02, 2010, 03:59:42 PM »
Quote from: Bill_McBride on February 02, 2010, 03:35:30 PM
Quote from: Bill_McBride on February 02, 2010, 09:46:19 AM
It would be good to see the kikuyu scraped out of the wash and restored to its original sandy condition, at least what I've seen of photos.  This new iteration wouldn't be as bad if the dividing hazard were deeper and wider.   And wilder.  It's pretty tame looking now.

Check out the Thomas drawing just above to see what I had in mind by "wider" and "wilder!"

OMG what a golf hole that is!

Was the wash THAT big before? Or is it an exaggeration....
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Tim Gavrich

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Re: Riviera"s 8th hole "modified" once again
« Reply #20 on: February 02, 2010, 04:14:50 PM »
I had no idea that this had been done.  It looks downright bizarre right now.  Maybe once it's been there a while, it'll look better.  I hope...
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Michael Dugger

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Re: Riviera"s 8th hole "modified" once again
« Reply #21 on: February 02, 2010, 04:16:15 PM »
That looks hideous and certainly isn't a wash...

Boo
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JNC Lyon

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Re: Riviera"s 8th hole "modified" once again
« Reply #22 on: February 02, 2010, 04:41:25 PM »
Read my post on Geoff Shackelford's post.  I continued to be disgusted with Fazio's work on the classics.  I guess it hits on a little more personal level for me.
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Bill_McBride

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Re: Riviera"s 8th hole "modified" once again
« Reply #23 on: February 02, 2010, 05:07:46 PM »
Quote from: Sean Leary on February 02, 2010, 03:59:42 PM
Quote from: Bill_McBride on February 02, 2010, 03:35:30 PM
Quote from: Bill_McBride on February 02, 2010, 09:46:19 AM
It would be good to see the kikuyu scraped out of the wash and restored to its original sandy condition, at least what I've seen of photos.  This new iteration wouldn't be as bad if the dividing hazard were deeper and wider.   And wilder.  It's pretty tame looking now.

Check out the Thomas drawing just above to see what I had in mind by "wider" and "wilder!"

OMG what a golf hole that is!

Was the wash THAT big before? Or is it an exaggeration....

There was a huge flood not too many years after the course opened and I think a lot of the features of the wash were "washed" away.  It might have been that wide, not sure how deep.  A lot of water would have moved across the bottom of the course with the cliff above and being the downhill side of the course.
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Kalen Braley

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Re: Riviera"s 8th hole "modified" once again
« Reply #24 on: February 02, 2010, 06:30:49 PM »
I guess I'm in the minority with Jordan,

But I think the hole looks better with the latest changes than it did with all the trees.  At least they made some effort to get it back closer to what it once was.
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