Tim W:
I'll say this again for those who don't believe it but solid managed and well designed taxpayer owned facilities do exist. Do yourself a big favor and see how successful the Alabama Golf Trail is. Good layouts and manageable prices for all.
I know from many trips to different locales where taxpayer-owned facilities does not mean automatically a politically connected haven of unqualified personnel running the store. In addition, these same locales have interesting layouts that span a spectrum of design merits that can accomodate all types of players.
Why this cannot be duplicated is simple -- people tolerate the nonsense or simply give up and go to other courses. I look at the work that's been done at all 90 holes at Bethpage and know that with sound management and efficient use of resources it can be done. And, no gentlemen, it's not just the Black Course -- check out the other courses and you can see what can be done with sustained vision and know how.
As far as slow play is concerned Tim I know from having observed courses throughout the country as a rater that many REALLY do something against slow play. Management owns the facility ... management sets the day-to-day philosophy and staff orientation and if they give that up either because of inertia, stupidity, whatever, that's their fault. The players are like cattle -- you steer them or they start to wander to whatever interests them or grabs their attention.
Tim -- I think you've not seen the types of courses I am speaking about. Go to Monmouth County or Morris County (NJ) and play one of their park courses and begin to do the six-hour crawl you find at a number of other taxpayer-owned facilities and you will be escorted off the course after fair warning has been given. They don't tolerate the nonsense -- period!
Tim -- if you think the players are going to get it by divine guidance you are sadly mistaken. Management at any facility that applies consistent policies and follow-ups can beat back slow play. There are courses in the USA that do it -- I don't have to go to another culture (Irish / Scottish) to find it. Also -- how demanding or less demanding a course plays is really a secondary consideration if at all. You can have fairways as wide as Kansas with no rough and if you permit players to drag their butts it will happen.
When you say taxpayer $$ are being used I hear you loud and clear, however, you can get taxpayer-owned facilities that have quality design and sustained maintenance efforts to keep them as such. For those who believe otherwise I urge you to visit any of the courses I have mentioned throughout this thread. They do exist and one doesn't have to "dumb down" courses in the process.
Pat M.
As someone who lives in NJ I urge you to visit what's happening with Monmouth, Morris and Somerset counties. Each of these three does what I have mentioned. The concepts I am talking about are not mutually exclusive. You can ask George Bahto that with what he's doing with The Knoll -- a course owned by the town of Parsippany as just another example that comes quickly to mind.