[George Pazin]

Troy Alderson has been kind enough to agree to do a GTK thread. As you have likely noted from his posts, Troy is in my favored class of posters - he is a golf course superintendent. They are certainly the unsung heroes of the industry, though I do think we do a good job of recognizing their worth on here.

I'll try to dig up some more on Troy, in the meantime, start thinking up questions.

NOTE: Pretty sad how Aidan's thread wound down. I like to joke as much as anyone, but one should do so realizing that one of the biggest shortcomings of the internet is how communication is often misinterpreted. Please try to keep it fun AND civil.

-----

Next up: Gotta check

As an aside, if you told me January was good for you and I haven't contacted you yet, don't hesitate to bug me. I am notorious among my friends and family for my absent-mindedness. The wise man, when confronted with such a weakness, would become more organized - that's not how I tackle the problem, I prefer to remain blissfully ignorant!

5 most recent participants:

Aidan Bradley

John Vander Borght

Tony Muldoon

Andrew Summerell

Charlie Goerges

Full list:

GTK participants

[George Pazin]

Here's Troy's info from the Who Are You Guys? thread:

Hello golf wackos,

My name is Troy Alderson and I am the golf course superintendent (head greenkeeper) at Kah-Nee-Ta High Desert Resort and Casino in Central Oregon.  I am a golf fanatic.  I love the game, the classic golf courses, and how the classics were maintained in the old days.  I am 37 with an old golfing soul.  I am also rather overeducated too, Washington State U. (BS), Rutgers U. (Turf Mgt), and Marylhurst U. (MBA) in that order.  The future holds for me, my own golf course somewhere, I just need to find it.

I ran across this site while looking for golf course pictures and started reading the interviews and opinions.  Great stuff.  I am a 13 handicap and supervise a golf course designed by William P. Bell and Sons (front nine) and Gene "Bunny" Mason (back nine) in the early 1970s.  The golf course is the oldest Indian owned and operated golf course in the country, unless someone can prove otherwise.

I look forward to contributing to the group.

FOOUURR!

Troy Alderson

[George Pazin]

Standard questions:

What brought you to golf?

Golf course architecture?

This site?

I see you kind of answered them in your background post, but maybe a little expounding would help.

Do you feel that being a superintendent would help you as an owner as compared to, say, an architect, or a developer in general?

If you could be an owner, would you prefer to buy an existing course or build your own?

[Garland Bayley]

Troy,

Do you call all website members you play with "old timer?"

[Pete_Pittock]

Troy has left Kah-Nee-Ta and is now at Reames in Klamath Falls, Oregon. Private, 18 holes.

Troy,
You moved about 150 miles to the south. Any differences in greenkeeping practices?

[Garland Bayley]

Troy,

I know the job at Palouse Ridge would have been a dream come true for you, because it would have let you return to your family home.
Did they open the superintendent position for applicants?
Or, did they have a superintendent from the former 9 hole course that they kept?
Did you have any chance to work on the development of the course?
Do you have any comments on the quality of the course that resulted? I completely understand if you wish to pass on this.

[George Pazin]

Troy has left Kah-Nee-Ta and is now at Reames in Klamath Falls, Oregon. Private, 18 holes.

Troy,
You moved about 150 miles to the south. Any differences in greenkeeping practices?

Thanks for the update, Pete.

For everyone else, I don't know if Troy has seen this thread yet. I told him I would be putting it up, but I don't know how frequently he checks this site (he might not be as addicted as some others... ).

And if anyone has his email, it might help to give him a nudge.

I hope others will come up with some questions in the meantime.

[Troy Alderson]

Standard questions:

What brought you to golf?

I grew up above a county muni in Spokane WA called Hangman Valley GC.  I had golf lessons in the mid-1970s buy was not interested.  In the mid 1980s i got a job picking range balls at Hangman Valley GC and a year later moved into golf course maintenance.  I did not want to pursue GC Mnt until I worked at Manito G&CC after graudating from WSU in 1991 and saw what golf course maintenance is all about. 

Golf course architecture?

This web site got me into GC Architecture.

This site?

I was looking for golf course pictures for my computer screen saver and found GCA.com, that got me going on GC Architecture.

I see you kind of answered them in your background post, but maybe a little expounding would help.

Do you feel that being a superintendent would help you as an owner as compared to, say, an architect, or a developer in general?

I do.  But I feel anyone with a passion for golf courses can do any of the jobs on owning a golf course.  You just have to be willing to admit you do not know everything and need help.  I thuroughly believe that golf courses can do well without huge amount of inputs like money, water, and fertilizer.  It really is a matter of changing our perception of what a course should look like.  Most people I know that have visited St. Andrews in Scotland have an initial reaction of "this is quality golf", even Bobby Jones did not like St. Andrews at first, but grew to love it.

If you could be an owner, would you prefer to buy an existing course or build your own?

Buy an existing golf course.  I feel there are too many golf courses in the USA and there are many run down, poorly managed golf courses out there that need a knowledgeable superintendent/owner.  If I had the money, I would scrap the existing golf course and start over.  Turn off the irrigation, remove the heads/valves/controller, remove the trees (except very nice specimen trees), disc the turf, then layout the new route, shape the holes, install new irrigation, seed with fescue/bentgrass blend, grow it in.  If I didn't have the money, then I would change the course to fit my style of as few a years as financially possible.

[Troy Alderson]

Troy,

Do you call all website members you play with "old timer?"

Only the ones that I play golf with and are extremely "aged" more than me.  But it is a compliment, I am enjoying growing older.

[Troy Alderson]

Troy has left Kah-Nee-Ta and is now at Reames in Klamath Falls, Oregon. Private, 18 holes.

Troy,
You moved about 150 miles to the south. Any differences in greenkeeping practices?

Not really Pete.  Klamath Falls is still high desert and dry.  Really just a slightly shorter growing season from March through October.  Kah-Nee-Ta's growing season was February through November.

Here as the Assistant Supt, I am learning to learn again from Rich Flink.  He has been here for 30 years and knows what this golf course needs.  I do not agree with some of his agronomy practices, but he gets the job done.

I took a chance in selling golf turf equipment, but was not good at it, was let go, unemployed for 1 year, know the GM here at Reames and applied for the AGCS position which I got.  I am very happy to be here at Reames, they treat me very well, the compensation is good, and they want my input.  I have applied for Supt positions at Waverley CC, Chinook Winds, Lewiston GCC and have not heard back from them at all, which can be good that they have not eliminated me yet.  I have a lead for a new resort golf course in Burns and have applied for an AGCS position in Spokane to get back home Lord willing.

I have a very deep passion for golf course maintenance.  I have been researching for years on how to maintain a golf course with very minimal inputs.  It is just too easy to apply fertilizer and water to satisfy the masses.  By using minimal inputs, I beleive that a golf course is more sustainable in the long run and will cost less and less to maintain as the years go by.

[Troy Alderson]

Troy,

I know the job at Palouse Ridge would have been a dream come true for you, because it would have let you return to your family home.
Did they open the superintendent position for applicants?

Yes, they did and they found a very good superintedent in Todd Lupkes CGCS who I met years ago once.  Todd is running for GCSAA office this year.

Or, did they have a superintendent from the former 9 hole course that they kept?

Todd came from the wet side of the state.

Did you have any chance to work on the development of the course?

No I did not.  I am at least 6 hours from Pullman.

Do you have any comments on the quality of the course that resulted? I completely understand if you wish to pass on this.

From the pictures I have seen, I LOVE IT.  It is what I would want my golf course to look like.

[George Pazin]

Klamath Falls is still high desert and dry. 

Can you expand on this a bit? I can't be the only nor'easter who thought Oregon and the entire Pacific Northwest was a very wet region.

Very cool that you want to buy; I'm sure I can come up with a few questions about that!

[Troy Alderson]

Klamath Falls is still high desert and dry.

Can you expand on this a bit? I can't be the only nor'easter who thought Oregon and the entire Pacific Northwest was a very wet region.

The PNW is divided by the Cascade Mountain range.  The west side of the Cascades is the wet side and the east side of the Cascades is the high desert intermountain area.  On the east side of the state we have hot summers and cold snowy winters.  The majority of the population lives on the west side of the Cascades and determine the political make-up of the state.

Kah-Nee-Ta's elevation was about 1500 ft above sea level, Bend is about 3500 ft above sea level, and Klamath Falls is about 4000 ft above sea level.  Kah-Nee-Ta would typically get 100 degree weather for about one month in the summer, Klamath Falls will typically get 90 degree weather.  Though desert regions don't have alot of rain, we usally see large amounts of underground reservoirs as the water supply.  So water really isn't an issue here, but it is politically.

Very cool that you want to buy; I'm sure I can come up with a few questions about that!

[Troy Alderson]

Klamath Falls is still high desert and dry. 

Very cool that you want to buy; I'm sure I can come up with a few questions about that!

I have my own ideas of what my golf course would look like.  In general, I would simplify the maintenance of the grounds by removing trees and bunkers that are not strategically placed or causing additional maintenance. 

I would eliminate all the different heights of cuts that we find on golf courses; greens, collars, approaches, fairway, intermediate rough cut, and the rough.  I would move towards 2 to 3 heights of cut; greens, fairways, maybe a collar cut.  All inplay turf is kept at the fairway cut.  Imagine the tees, tee surrounds, tee fronts, fairways, in-play rough, approaches, and green surrounds at the same height of cut. 

I would classify any bunkers on the course as waste areas and maintain them appropriately as waste areas.

I just need to find a way of gathering the funding together to make the dream happen.

[George Pazin]

Thanks for the follow up, Troy. I believe someone from Michigan said there is a course called Diamond Springs that uses one fairway cut throughout the course, it's an idea I love.

One of the arguments you always hear against it is that it would cost too much to maintain that much fairway, but I'd guess that is more a reflection of the over-intensiveness with which fairways are often maintained. Thoughts?

[Troy Alderson]

Thanks for the follow up, Troy. I believe someone from Michigan said there is a course called Diamond Springs that uses one fairway cut throughout the course, it's an idea I love.

One of the arguments you always hear against it is that it would cost too much to maintain that much fairway, but I'd guess that is more a reflection of the over-intensiveness with which fairways are often maintained. Thoughts?

Then let's not call it fairway, we will call it "through the green" as according to the rules of golf.  Most if not all superintendents treat their roughs and fairways the same.  They are watered the same, the initial rough and fairways are fertilized the same and sprayed for weeds the same.  All I am doing is cutting the primary rough to 3/4" fairway cut or what ever height I choose.  I am referring to the primary rough, the 3 to 5 passes with the rough mower.  In the PNW, it is all treated the same "for the most part".  Wolf Point is a great example even though that course does not get high amounts of play.

My idea is about minimizing the maintenance cost in operations and I feel simplifying the operations is the best way to do that.  Though I would like to go towards only a spring fertilizer application, I understand that cart traffic dictates 2 to 3 applications per year.  I believe I could maintain a good quality golf course this way with 5 on the crew.  Of course this is all dependent upon the course location and climate and amount of play it gets.

I would say that they are stuck on what a golf course should look like with tee cuts, fairway cuts, approach cuts, green cuts, and rough cuts.  No where in the rules of golf is it written that a golf course has to look a certain way or be maintained a certain way or cut a certain way. 

[Garland Bayley]

...
My idea is about minimizing the maintenance cost in operations and I feel simplifying the operations is the best way to do that.  Though I would like to go towards only a spring fertilizer application, I understand that cart traffic dictates 2 to 3 applications per year. ...

 

[Troy Alderson]

...
My idea is about minimizing the maintenance cost in operations and I feel simplifying the operations is the best way to do that.  Though I would like to go towards only a spring fertilizer application, I understand that cart traffic dictates 2 to 3 applications per year. ...

 

Whaaat?  Surprised Garland?  Good or Bad?

We apply fertilizer to help the turf recover from wear and tear.  Carts contribute to additioinal wear on the turf.  At my own course, I would apply spring 4-0-2 ratio and fall 2-0-4 ratio fertilizer.  I might mix in some phosphorous, as needed, by soil/tissue testing.

[Garland Bayley]

...
My idea is about minimizing the maintenance cost in operations and I feel simplifying the operations is the best way to do that.  Though I would like to go towards only a spring fertilizer application, I understand that cart traffic dictates 2 to 3 applications per year. ...

 

Whaaat?  Surprised Garland?  Good or Bad?

We apply fertilizer to help the turf recover from wear and tear.  Carts contribute to additioinal wear on the turf.  At my own course, I would apply spring 4-0-2 ratio and fall 2-0-4 ratio fertilizer.  I might mix in some phosphorous, as needed, by soil/tissue testing.

I'm just so used to posts on this site saying carts really cause no problem.
Looking over green committee docs at my club I see them constantly talking about cart path problems and solutions! So where's the talk about green?

[Steve Curry]

Troy,

What turf types do you have at Kah-nee-tah?

Greatest challenge after golfers and irrigation?

Do you enjoy golf or play it well enough?


Best of Luck,
Steve

[Garland Bayley]

Troy enjoys playing golf. He is fairly young and Mike Erdmann had he and I down to his course for a game. I was hitting pretty long and straight with my driver that day (longer and straighter than Mike anyhow), but Troy was sailing his 3 wood well past me. Finally I think on the 18th, it looked like I might have hit it past him to which he chortled, "Did you finally get one past me old timer."

While all this was going on and Mike was driving poorly, but hitting excellent recovery shots, getting up and down from everywhere, and whipping our sorry tails.

[Troy Alderson]

Troy,

What turf types do you have at Kah-nee-tah?

Steve, the turf at KNT was per rye, kentuky blue, bentgrass, and of course annual bluegrass.  Because of the low budget, which I am thankful for in hindsight, minimized my fertilizer applications so bentgrass was flourishing by the time I left.  I will admit that I over watered a little, 30 minute run times vs. 20 minute run times.  By the time I left there was more bentgrass on the course then when I started and I did not overseed.

Greatest challenge after golfers and irrigation?

Goflers were not a problem there, only about 10,000 rounds per year.  The irrigation system was really old and unreliable, main line breaks at least every month.  The biggest problem was the labor pool, KNT was out int he middle of nowhere.  So my wages were high to get qualified people.  And often after a two week paycheck, I would not see an employee for several days.  The resort had a three strikes and your out policy which was nice.

Do you enjoy golf or play it well enough?

I love golf, but do not play well, IMHO.  I am a 15ish handicap with the swing of a scratch golfer.


Best of Luck,
Steve

[Troy Alderson]

Troy enjoys playing golf. He is fairly young and Mike Erdmann had he and I down to his course for a game. I was hitting pretty long and straight with my driver that day (longer and straighter than Mike anyhow), but Troy was sailing his 3 wood well past me. Finally I think on the 18th, it looked like I might have hit it past him to which he chortled, "Did you finally get one past me old timer."

While all this was going on and Mike was driving poorly, but hitting excellent recovery shots, getting up and down from everywhere, and whipping our sorry tails.

Hi Garland,

I like the term fairly young, I will be 42 in April by the way. 

And for you Old Timer; A gray head is a crown of glory; It is found in the way of righteousness, Proverbs 16.31.

Have you heard from Mike lately?  I have not seen him on GCA.com since returning.

Troy

[Garland Bayley]

I haven't heard from Mike lately. He chimes in here very seldom. My understanding is that he spends his time now on Tommy N's website.

[Mike Erdmann]

I'm still around, just missed this thread somehow.  When (if?) the rains stop, let's all get together for a round.  Troy, hopefully you're not dealing with the desiccation problems that have plagued the greens on this side of the Cascades in the last couple of months!

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()