one of the best holes in the world: the 4th at Elie !

[Philippe Binette]

Winston Churchill once said that if a man can't resume a situation in a 8,5 x 11 recto-verso, he doesn't know what he is talking about...

well it took me just about that to explain the 4th at Elie. It's remarkable how a complex strategy can exist on such a simple hole

tell me what you think
http://www.inspirationgolf.com/Golf-House-Club-4th.html

[Mark Pearce]

Philippe,

A great site, thanks.  Every summer we take a fortnight family holiday in a cottage which backs onto the road running down the LHS of the 4th fairway.  Your analysis doesn't identify one very relevant factor in playing the 4th, that is that it plays almost straight into the prevailing wind. 

For me, the preferref drive is nearly always into the right side of the fairway, since that avoids the need to carry greenside rough to get to a left side/high pin position.  It also gives a better chance of stopping the ball near a front pin position on those rare occasions when the wind is behind or there is no wind.

I'm not sure, by the way, that a ball landing on the high part of the green is likely to end in the bunker (I have never seen that happen) but it will, almost always, end up in the back right portion of the green.

I think the use of the ridge on this hole is genius.  Without it the hole would be mundane.  The ridge makes it a great hole and, as you say, comes into consideration on every shot.  It is one of the real strengths of Elie that a golfer of almost any ability has to constantly think about strategy whilst playing the course.

[Sean_A]

My lord does this hole remind me of the 7th at Burnham.  Take away the bunkers and have the low side of the fairway to the left and shazam - there you have it.  The wind is terriibly different either although at Burnham it tends to quarter off the left.  Does the pin position determine which side of the fairway one wants to drive to?  For instance, at Burnham, if the hole is right one wants to drive right so he can take advantage of the ridge on the green kicking balls to the right.  The same is true if the hole is on the left.  Attempting to approach from the opposite side of the ridge is very trying.

I love this sort of low level architecture which bites people in the ass.




To me, the key is getting the ridge front and centre rather than down one of the wings.  

Do you have any ground level pix?

Ciao

[Mark Pearce]

Sean,

I guess for very good players the pin position might make a difference to the preferred drive but for me I reckon that a drive into the lower (right) side will give me a good shot at setting up a birdie chance with a lower (right) pin position or a safe par with a higher (left) pin.  A drive into the higher side brings the left bunker into play (and the left rough, which is brutal).  That bunker is a shot bunker, in that there is no way a good player can reach the green from the bunker and the rough is also a likely shot penalty or, worse, a lost ball.  Even from the left fairway it is difficult to hit and hold the upper shelf and the recovery shot from the bunker short left or from the rough short and left of the green is a tricky one.

Mark

[Philippe Binette]

Mark,

thanks for the comments, one line I forgot was, we can't forget that there's wind in action too.

as far the ball going into the right bunker, it was if you play from the left fairway to a right pin, if the ball lands on the ridge (the downslope) it will kick forward and right. if it lands on the high side, it wiil stay there and then, have fun putting.

I know, for this analysis as well as any other, that I can't explain alll the nuances because then, I'll write a book for each hole. It's the proof that they are great. I'm trying to get the general spirit.

[Philippe Binette]

Mark,

I reread the text ofthe 2nd frame and there is a line missing at: Invertly, a ball played from the high side of the fairway to a right pin ..... the word in bold are missing.

[Philippe Binette]

Kelly

I've only played it once (although I fooled around the green 10 more minutes for fun) and it was 4 years ago... this hole just struck me as amazing. I used the aerials and the pictures on golfarchitecturepictures.com to remember it better but still had a clear picture of this hole in my mind.

By the way, I made birdie by running an approach to 4 feet from the wrong side of the ridge (which proves it's not impossible but my secnd shot was perfect.

[Mark Pearce]

Kelly,

I have probably played it between 75 and a hundred times but Philippe pretty much nailed it with his analysis (except that I'm yet to see a ball hit from the left fairway hit the upper green and end in that bunker).  It's also very rare for the upper shelf to be used for the hole, which is normally on the right side, though the length of the green gives plenty of oppoprtunity to change the way the approach must be played.  Depending on the wind I've hit everything from a 3W to a sand wedge for my second on this hole.

Philippe did well to birdie the hole.  I have birdied it a few times but I think that even very good players see the 4th as a hole to make par on.  It comes after three very varied hole (1st - long par 4, blind tee shot, tricky green, 2nd short uphill par 4, driveable by some, birdie chance, 3rd, long and tricky par3) but before a string of three short par 4s each of which is a birdie chance.

[Mark Pearce]

Kelly,

Patience, my man!  I'm going to respond but I want to consider my reply and work's been a bit hectic.  I'll get to it this weekend.

[Philippe Binette]

there's room on the right of the tee... it's not tall fescue up to the edge of the fairway.

left of the green is not a place to be... flopping over the bunker on a small area is hard... short left in the fairway is kind of safe p<but the green does run away from you on the upper side at the start, delicate shot.


mark, : about the ball rolling of, there were some word missing in my dersription, see a few comments above

[Mark Pearce]

Here's a detail of the green from Google earth.  Sadly this part of Fife is still low resolution.  However, it shows that the left greenside bunker eats into the front left of the bunker.  Trying to hit the front of the left, upper, shelf brings that bunker into play.  I think you can make out that the grass beyond (and to the side) of that bunker is quite thick.  It's a tricky shot to play out of that bunker to the front left portion of the green but that rough can be thick and leave an almost impossible chip.  I'd rather play to that portion of the green from the right fairway and my (much) preferred miss is to hit the right green portion, from where a par 4 should be reasonably straightforward, with a good approach putt.

The rough on the left handside is very thick.  Thick enough that anyone missing the farway left will play a provisional.  You would be lucky to miss the fairway on the left by more than a few feet and have a lie allowing a shot at the green.  There is lost ball rough on the right, as well, but much further from the fairway and there is normally a cut of rough a bit more than semi-rough but from where taking on the green is possible.  Also, if your bad shot from rough is short and left (as mine is) I'd rather be playing from there than the thicker rough on the left.

I suspect the ridge is natural, I can't imagine a designer creating such a long, artificial ridge and whilst I'm no expert on spotting artificial earth movement, Elie strikes me as a course where very little earth was moved.

The yellow pin, BTW, shows the narrow rear entrance to the cottage we rent each summer.

[Bill_McBride]

I suspect the ridge is natural, I can't imagine a designer creating such a long, artificial ridge and whilst I'm no expert on spotting artificial earth movement, Elie strikes me as a course where very little earth was moved.

I don't know where Jerry Pate's design team got the idea, maybe here, but a similar ridge is the central feature of our 16th hole at Pensacola Country Club.   The tee shot on this 300 yard hole is over a waste area.  About 80 yards in front of the green the ridge starts and actually runs right up into the green.  On the green, the ridge falls left to form a lower tier and the right side of the ridge forms the upper tier.   With a deep bunker on the right and a creek at the bottom of the green to the left, the green is well protected.  A tee shot left of the ridge can run onto the green - if hit a long way - or at least to a position looking straight into the green; a tee shot five yards right will fall off down the ridge, potentially into a fairway bunker.   That ridge really makes the hole.

Here's a photo from the tee, you can see the ridge and how it feeds right into the green and dramatically affects play of the hole:

[Bill_McBride]

Great stuff Mark, thanks. Incidently, drawing on themes from other threads, do you know much about the maintenance practices there, size of crew, visual impression of turgrass quality, impacts of maintenance on play of course. Also, do the streets and homes to left of hole receive much play? How far are these features from the center of the golf hole.

Those houses are quite a ways to the left of the fairway, Kelly, but I did tee up on the left side of the box and hit a fade up the right side!  Main reason was the thick hay down the left more than the houses.

[Mark Pearce]

Great stuff Mark, thanks. Incidently, drawing on themes from other threads, do you know much about the maintenance practices there, size of crew, visual impression of turgrass quality, impacts of maintenance on play of course. Also, do the streets and homes to left of hole receive much play? How far are these features from the center of the golf hole.

Kelly,

Despite what Bill says, those houses take a pounding.  In this years Links Championship (an open competition which is reasonably prestigious in Fife Amateur circles but which hackers up to 12 handicap can play in) my drive (into, I should say, a 35/40 mph wind) disappeared into the front yard of one of my proposers for membership.  Cars parked on the road are hit reasonably frequently when the wind is blowing.

Maintenance wise, I'm not certain of numbers but I'd estimate perhaps half a dozen permanent greenkeepers.  In the past I have tended to play very early in the morning and have had several discussions with the crew, though not as to maintenance practices.  Historically Elie was always fast and firm but recently is has been less so.  When BUDA was there in 2008 it was noticeable that the soil was blacker than expected on a links (Mark Bourgeouis started a thread on links maintenance around then, following Malcolm Campbell's presentation at BUDA on how links were at danger of being lost to over-watering and fertiliser).

The greens are usually excellent though always at sensible links speeds (up to about 10 on the stimpmeter - Elie like many British courses which benefit from plenty of US visitors does measure the speeds of its greens every day).  The course usually looks immaculate but is at its best when it starts to turn brown, sadly, like so many links these days it tends to get more water than will allow it to turn really brown in summer.

Elie is a reasonably wealthy club and its maintenance crew is well equipped, I do wonder if it hasn't been maintained a little too green in recent years (though we have had a string of wet summers, which might be the problem).  Last year I noticed (and a former captain I was playing with commented on) a tendency to allow collars of rough to grow around the greens, taking the ground game out of play to some extent.  This apparently was a deliberate move by the current captain.  I hope, if that is right, that his successor moves away from that policy and returns to tightly mown grass around the greens.  Elie is too short to be a real challenge for the best golfers, except in a strong wind.  It is, however, about as much fun as a golf course can be and to move to a softer set up with more rough, particularly around the greens, would detract from that fun without actually achieving the aim of making it any harder.

Mark