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Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Aerial of the Day #69 - 10 Apr 2002
« on: April 10, 2002, 07:11:03 AM »
Soixant-neuf.  'Neuf said.  ::)

This is the first aerial shown where I didn't do the collecting, nor the melding.  I certainly appreciate it, since it saves me time and work.  Also, since the copyright was deleted, I'll give Mapquest.com and GlobXplorer their props.

Do I see a bunch of stunned pros down there?

« Last Edit: April 29, 2005, 03:03:06 PM by Scott_Burroughs »

Mike Cirba

Re: Aerial of the Day #69 - 10 Apr 2002
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2002, 07:32:44 AM »
Not sure which course, but RTJ Sr., I presume?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Aerial of the Day #69 - 10 Apr 2002
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2002, 07:48:34 AM »
With landing strip tees and pinched fairway landing areas, whatever would make you think that?   ;)

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

SPDB

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Aerial of the Day #69 - 10 Apr 2002
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2002, 07:59:49 AM »
I think I have it. Has this course hosted a major?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Aerial of the Day #69 - 10 Apr 2002
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2002, 08:18:11 AM »
No.  Two.   :)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:04 PM by -1 »

william wang (Guest)

Re: Aerial of the Day #69 - 10 Apr 2002
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2002, 08:23:14 AM »
i don't think this is a rtj sr. original design, right?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

SPDB

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Aerial of the Day #69 - 10 Apr 2002
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2002, 08:37:23 AM »
ok. sets up well for a short-knocker, i guess.

the real gem of the area is due DIRECTLY 5 miles east of this course.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Aerial of the Day #69 - 10 Apr 2002
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2002, 08:42:46 AM »
"A group of stunned pros": I really wanted that group to be Jerry Heard, Bobby Nichols and Lee Trevino. What a fine clue that would be!

But no.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Aerial of the Day #69 - 10 Apr 2002
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2002, 08:47:38 AM »
RTJ, Sr. is the original designer of the course at this location, but this is not the original course for this club, which was in a different location (like so many other old-time clubs, it seems).

Dan,

Part of the history of this club probably has some other stunned pros for another reason besides my original intent.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:04 PM by -1 »

SPDB

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Aerial of the Day #69 - 10 Apr 2002
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2002, 08:59:29 AM »
i wonder if this club plays similar to sub saharan african courses? it must.

 ::) ;D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Aerial of the Day #69 - 10 Apr 2002
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2002, 09:21:54 AM »
I just got that last clue, I think.

Yes, there is a gem 5 miles from here, but I've already shown quite a few Raynor's already.   :)

This is yet another state where this is the first aerial from there.  That makes 28 states represented in 69 aerials.  There have been 9 courses from NY and 8 in CA (5 in PA, 4 in OH and SC, and 3 in NJ, FL, and IL).

There is a relation with 9/11 and a previous clue (BIG HINT).

Back at 1:00.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:04 PM by -1 »

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Aerial of the Day #69 - 10 Apr 2002
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2002, 09:28:38 AM »
"Show me" how the sub saharan clue fits in.  I get the frenchie stuff, I think, but 9/11 I'm a blank.  ::)  Wouldn't Lindbergh's plane be better?  8)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:04 PM by -1 »
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

THuckaby2

Re: Aerial of the Day #69 - 10 Apr 2002
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2002, 09:30:45 AM »
AHA!  I believe I finally got it.  And RJD, the sub-saharan clue relates not so much to the course as to who once had success there... hope that doesn't give it away...

TH
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Aerial of the Day #69 - 10 Apr 2002
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2002, 09:34:45 AM »
OOhh, Tom, your just in the 'nick' of time!  ;D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

THuckaby2

Re: Aerial of the Day #69 - 10 Apr 2002
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2002, 09:36:36 AM »
RJD:  WHOOPS!  One of us is off here, and it could well be me, or I could be forgetting the "price" one has to pay to be a "player"....

TH
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

JakaB

Re: Aerial of the Day #69 - 10 Apr 2002
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2002, 09:45:22 AM »
This picture shows the increased pond on 17.  Does anybody know when the pond was made larger and why?

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Aerial of the Day #69 - 10 Apr 2002
« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2002, 09:46:38 AM »
No Huck, it is one of those times where the boat of us is right (east), not just a bluff.  (Mark Twain)   ;)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

THuckaby2

Re: Aerial of the Day #69 - 10 Apr 2002
« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2002, 09:55:34 AM »
RJD:  AHA!  Dense ole me....

BTW, I sent you a message through this thing on the "private message" part... check it out.

TH
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

SPDB

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Aerial of the Day #69 - 10 Apr 2002
« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2002, 10:08:25 AM »
It is kind of eerie when you think of the English translation of the name of the town this course is in and the connection scott has pointed out to 9/11.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Aerial of the Day #69 - 10 Apr 2002
« Reply #19 on: April 10, 2002, 10:46:25 AM »
Scott --

Well, it took me till now to figure this one out.  :P :P :P

I'm still possibly puzzling over "shocked pros" -- but am guessing that's a second 9/11 clue. Right?

(You'll have to give me this much: "shocked pros" would be a great clue for Butler National!)

What do people think of this course?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

JakaB

Re: Aerial of the Day #69 - 10 Apr 2002
« Reply #20 on: April 10, 2002, 11:03:06 AM »
Dan,

I played this course a month or so ago with no leaves on the trees and perfect conditions...The membership was outstanding in that I played Sunday morning at 10:30 with a full course and everybody walking in only 3.5 hours.  The course is 40 years old and remains a great championship layout...The course is a great championship layout and remains a great members club...I am pissed at myself for listening to the people who had poo poohed the layout as too difficult or bland...which kept me far too long from enjoying one of the midwestern jewels we should all drive all night to see.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Aerial of the Day #69 - 10 Apr 2002
« Reply #21 on: April 10, 2002, 11:29:20 AM »
Here goes a lot of info.

This is RTJ, Sr.'s Bellerive CC outside of St. Louis, MO ("Show Me" state), host of the '65 U.S. Open and '92 PGA, won by "Nick" "Price" of ("sub-Saharan") "South Africa", during his reign of terror those two years on the tour.

The course is no pushover at 7177 yards and 75.0, 144 from the tips.

The gem 5 miles from there is Raynor's St. Louis CC.

The second reference to shocked pros has to do with a military plane crashing into the original location of the club in the runway path of Lambert airport (I'd be shocked if that happened to my club).  The full story of the club's history is here:
 
"Bellerive Country Club has a long and honorable history of supporting golf and providing outstanding facilities for it. Founded in 1897 as the Field Club of St. Louis, it soon had a nine-hole course, a mere 10 years after the first golf course was built in the United States at St. Andrews in Yonkers, N.Y.

In 1909, the club moved to a larger site in northwest St. Louis County and changed its name to Bellerive Country Club, after Captain Louis Ange de Bellerive, the last French commander in North America and first governor of St. Louis. Its new 18-hole golf course was designed by the club's new golf professional, Robert Foulis, a native of St. Andrews, Scotland. Foulis remained as the club's professional for 35 years, but moonlighted occasionally to help design golf courses elsewhere in the Midwest.

By the mid-1950s several developments made it almost inevitable Bellerive would have to move. More and more of its members were moving into west St. Louis County, many miles from the club, and the jet age had arrived. Bellerive was located directly under the flight path to an increasingly noisy Lambert International Airport. The event which ended the argument about whether to move came in 1957 when a military jet tragically crashed on the 13th green, killing the pilot.

After much searching and consideration, a 353-acre site at Ladue and Mason roads in west St. Louis County was selected for the new club. Robert Trent Jones, Sr., not only aided in selecting the location but was retained to design the golf course. One of Bellerive's members, architect Kenneth Wischmeyer, designed the large and spacious (61,500 sq. ft.) clubhouse. Opening day at the new club was Memorial Day 1960, with Trent Jones himself in the initial foursome."

Excerpts taken from Bellerive's Proud History, by Arthur E. Wright, Jr.  (I found this on the GCSAA web site).


The original reference to stunned pros and 9/11 has to do with where the golf world was when the 9/11 attacks occurred.  The AMEX World Golf Championships were being held at Bellerive during that week and obviously all of the world's best players were stunned (plenty of TV footage showing them receiving the news).  Quick decision to cancel the event, but how do they get home?  Tiger rented a car and drove 1000 miles home to Orlando, only stopping for gas/bathroom breaks, drinking little to not have to go, and surviving on energy bars.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:04 PM by -1 »

John Cavanaugh

Re: Aerial of the Day #69 - 10 Apr 2002
« Reply #22 on: April 10, 2002, 11:47:49 AM »
JakaB
i've not head anyone poopoo this course and it sure looks like a difficult test, but what did you find interesting about the design?  it appears to feature gigantic greens and tees, a similar bunkering scheme on every hole and an abundance of trees. please forgive me and don't read this as a poopoo but I must yawnnnnnnn. can't any monkey come up with difficult test? kk please give us a detailed account of this course's finer points, if you are capable.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

SPDB

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Aerial of the Day #69 - 10 Apr 2002
« Reply #23 on: April 10, 2002, 12:08:44 PM »
This course is in Creve Coeur, MO, which translated into English means "Broken Heart." Eerie, considering that's where the pros were on 9/11.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:04 PM by -1 »

JakaB

Re: Aerial of the Day #69 - 10 Apr 2002
« Reply #24 on: April 10, 2002, 12:18:11 PM »
John,

First of all I don't know enough crap about subtle poo pooh of design to critique a great championship layout that has stood the test of time from a 65 Open to a 92 PGA with very little design changes.  I liked the tees...I loved the greens...at least 18 of each.  I loved the tradition and the way I was treated.  The winter hitting mat was a combination of astroturf and fine ground rubber sitting on what I believe was a sand base...I liked it so much I am trying to get a local club to build one like it instead of hiring some asphalt company to put in a base with standard mats.

I will tell you that the greens were anything but big long slabs of grass....beautiful long subtle breaks and areas that are dead one day and golden the next depending on the pin location.   I love the runway tees from a historical perspective in that if they are an excellent design feature that works perfectly but would be rideculed as only a copy today.

You know big C...The course belongs to the members of Bellerive and until one of them has a brain fart and invites your sorry can't even spell your own name ass to play...I suggest you cut your Krispy Kreme allotment in half and buy a membership yourself.  Until then you and your monkey can crank my box till I spit nickles in your ear.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

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