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George Pazin

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Starting Mon., 1/18 - Get To Know John Vander Borght
« on: January 18, 2010, 10:18:43 AM »
I'm proud to call JohnV a good friend. The Golf Gods were kind enough to loan him to us for a few years here in the Burgh, but I always suspected it was just a matter of time before he returned home to the West Coast.

JohnV - sorry, I've referred to him that way for so long it's almost impossible to just type John - has been on this site for as long as anyone, and the site is indescribably richer for it. His knowledge of the rules is indispensable to all, while his insights into golf architecture further cement his standing as a golfclubatlas legend.

John also allows us to keep the streak of "overseas" posters alive, at least in a technical sense; he was born in the UK, though he has spent most of his life here in the rebellious colonies. :)

John's In My Opinion piece (rather timely still): The Balloon Ball. John also wrote a really good My Home Course piece on Hannastown, but I can't seem to find it.

Please welcome JohnV by coming up with some interesting questions - he will surely reward you with knowledge, insight, and maybe even a little bit of humo(u)r.

-----

On Deck: Aidan Bradley (I think, gotta double check with him)

5 most recent victims:

Tony Muldoon

Andrew Summerell

Charlie Goerges

Joe Hancock

Kelly Blake Moran

Full list of participants:

Full List
« Last Edit: January 18, 2010, 10:23:03 AM by George Pazin »
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Tim Bert

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Re: Starting Mon., 1/18 - Get To Know John Vander Borght
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2010, 10:32:29 AM »
John - Thanks for participating.

What's your favorite hole at Poppy Hills and why?

What's your favorite hole at Pacific Grove and why?

What are your 5 favorite holes on the peninsula?

What's the toughest ruling you ever had to make at any type of sanctioned golf event?  How often, if ever, do you second-guess a ruling that you've made?  Early on, did you ever REALLY get one wrong?

How tall are you?

Garland Bayley

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Re: Starting Mon., 1/18 - Get To Know John Vander Borght
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2010, 10:34:04 AM »
John,

Care to share with us why you are an Object-oriented COBOL expert?
 :)
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Starting Mon., 1/18 - Get To Know John Vander Borght
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2010, 11:07:44 AM »
I think I know the answers to at least some of these, but for the other folks who haven't been lucky enough to share a game with you:

What brought you to golf?

Golf course architecture?

This website?
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Jason Topp

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Starting Mon., 1/18 - Get To Know John Vander Borght
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2010, 11:34:02 AM »
John - I always enjoy your rules blog.

1.  Do you think the grooves rule will have a significant impact on the game?

2.  Do you have a view as to whether a reduction in the distance the ball travels would be positive for the game?

3.  What advice to you have for parents of kids that might be interested in competitive golf?

Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Starting Mon., 1/18 - Get To Know John Vander Borght
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2010, 12:13:01 PM »
John,

Are there any former Futures Tour players that you got to know several years ago that are now successful players on the LPGA Tour?

Jim Sweeney

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Starting Mon., 1/18 - Get To Know John Vander Borght
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2010, 12:18:28 PM »
Your favorite Open, Amateur, and Mid-am courses, and why.

Compare and contrast: Pittsburgh V. Monterrey women. (Kidding! Don't go there!)

All the best, Jim.
"Hope and fear, hope and Fear, that's what people see when they play golf. Not me. I only see happiness."

" Two things I beleive in: good shoes and a good car. Alligator shoes and a Cadillac."

Moe Norman

Dale Jackson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Starting Mon., 1/18 - Get To Know John Vander Borght
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2010, 12:22:01 PM »
How many people get 100% on a USGA Rules Exam?

How many people do it more than one?

How many times have you done it?

Rules geek showdown - who wins you or John Morrisett?

How close would it be?
I've seen an architecture, something new, that has been in my mind for years and I am glad to see a man with A.V. Macan's ability to bring it out. - Gene Sarazen

George Pazin

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Re: Starting Mon., 1/18 - Get To Know John Vander Borght
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2010, 12:33:41 PM »
Your favorite Open, Amateur, and Mid-am courses, and why.

Compare and contrast: Pittsburgh V. Monterrey women. (Kidding! Don't go there!)

All the best, Jim.

As the printer of more than a couple t's with a misspelling, I feel compelled to point out that Monterey has but one "r", unless you're referring to the one in Mexico. :)

Btw, our women are a lot poorer...
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Jim Nugent

Re: Starting Mon., 1/18 - Get To Know John Vander Borght
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2010, 12:50:18 PM »
John, in all the matches/tournaments you've officiated, have you come across any cheating by the players?  If so, can you tell us more about it? 

Second, do you think slope is more useful to golfers than bogey rating? 

Third, any USGA or R&A rules of golf you think should be changed? 

Thanks!

Michael Huber

Re: Starting Mon., 1/18 - Get To Know John Vander Borght
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2010, 02:34:20 PM »
John,

I really enjoy reading your course review on Hannastown.  I've played it a few times and it's one of my favorite courses in the area.

How did you end up being a member at Hannastown CC in Greensburg?

What is your favorite hole on the course?

What other courses in the Greensburg area did you enjoy?

Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Starting Mon., 1/18 - Get To Know John Vander Borght
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2010, 02:49:14 PM »
Third, any USGA or R&A rules of golf you think should be changed? 

Playing with JohnV is a treat.
His blog is outstanding - as is the name.
http://freedrop.wordpress.com/

I am looking forward to your answer to the above question.
When was the last time you broke a rule in a non-competition? and what rule was it?
Has Shivas seen the picture from your blog?

Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

Phil McDade

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Starting Mon., 1/18 - Get To Know John Vander Borght
« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2010, 03:53:39 PM »
Your favorite Open, Amateur, and Mid-am courses, and why.


I think I know the answer to one of these...

John:

What's the most difficult kind of ruling you have to make? Or are they all easy and straighforward? ;)

Pete_Pittock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Starting Mon., 1/18 - Get To Know John Vander Borght
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2010, 04:15:34 PM »
Favorite course and holes at Bandon.
Best golf trip.
Could the Pumpkin Ridge composite course get a US Open, or has Chambers Bay killed that off.
Any other First Tee outings you can recommend. Oakmont was killer.

John Mayhugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Starting Mon., 1/18 - Get To Know John Vander Borght
« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2010, 09:25:29 PM »
Any other First Tee outings you can recommend. Oakmont was killer.

Like a number of us, I owe John a big thank you for letting us know about that one.

Just a couple of questions:

1. When you get a chance to play, where do you go other than Poppy Hills?

2.  Which is worse in an unfavorable (for the player) ruling, tears or yelling?

3.  How many out of state NCGA members are there?  Great benefits if you're traveling to the area.

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Starting Mon., 1/18 - Get To Know John Vander Borght
« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2010, 11:08:28 PM »
Hi John, its been a long time - no see.  I hope to remedy that some time soon.

My question is how will the new V groove rules be inspected and enforced?  Anotherwords, are each player's irons observed or measured with a tool, periodically; or before each competition?  If there is a tool, is it the same procedure as they measure curves on hockey sticks where a ref can do it on the spot?  Or, will grooves only be inspected or examined when a ball action on an approach to a green looks suspicious?  Is it posible that after an inspection, grooves can be imperceptably altered and will re-examination be on a complaint basis, or random like drug tests?  I'd have a hard time believing players that get into serious tour or nationwide levels, would try any funny business.  But then again, there have been vague remarks by some players about other issues of unfair competitive advantage that have been concerning from time to time.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2010, 11:10:28 PM by RJ_Daley »
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

David_Tepper

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Re: Starting Mon., 1/18 - Get To Know John Vander Borght
« Reply #16 on: January 18, 2010, 11:29:08 PM »
John -

When are you planning to next visit Dornoch?

DT

George Pazin

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Re: Starting Mon., 1/18 - Get To Know John Vander Borght
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2010, 10:54:28 AM »
Guess I gotta remind John. :) Sorry, folks, sometimes things don't always go as planned. Your patience will be rewarded, I'm sure.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

JohnV

Re: Starting Mon., 1/18 - Get To Know John Vander Borght
« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2010, 11:41:00 AM »
John - Thanks for participating.
What's your favorite hole at Poppy Hills and why?
I'd probably go with #9.  It is a reachable par 5 that frequently plays into the wind.  The tee shot is probably the widest on the course, but if you go too far right you'll have to hit a big cut to get home in 2.  If you can play it just to the left of the right hand fairway bunker there is a speed slot that will give an extra 20-30 yards roll leaving around 200 yards in.  But, regardless if you go for it in 2 you have to carry it all the way to a difficult 3-level green and it is easy to three putt for par.  The player who lays up has two choices.  Top of the hill which leaves 150 or more in or bottom of the hill which is leaves a pretty blind shot.

What's your favorite hole at Pacific Grove and why?'
#12.  Another par 5, it is the prettiest hole as you get a great few of the bay from the tee.  Then around the corner to a raised green with no bunkers.

What are your 5 favorite holes on the peninsula?
So many great holes here it is hard to choose.  The obvious choices are ones like Pebble 7, 8, 9, 10, Cypress 9, 15, 16, 17.  All of those are great and fun.  I think I’ll pick 5 others just for fun and try to get one from different courses.  In no particular order, Cypress #1 – fun tee shot over 17-mile drive and a great green.  Pebble #16, I really like the second shot and you need to get the tee shot in the right place. Spyglass #9 – of the various difficult par 4s on the course, this is my favorite.  MPCC Dunes - #13, heading towards the beach and the well known 14th, this par 5’s bunkering has been redone and is very good now.  MPCC Shore - #11 – love the tee shot from the top of the rocks and any hole Bob Huntley has aced must be good.

What's the toughest ruling you ever had to make at any type of sanctioned golf event?  How often, if ever, do you second-guess a ruling that you've made?  Early on, did you ever REALLY get one wrong?
The toughest rulings are the judgement ones.  During a match between David Eger and Danny Green at the 1999 US Mid-Am, I was called on twice by Danny to rule if his ball was in casual water or not.  In both cases David walked over and glanced at it and walked away.  Since I’d taken a rules workshop from David in the past and both of them were close, it was a little extra pressure.  I gave Danny relief on the first one, but not the second.  He won the match and the championship that year.  David never told me if he thought I was right or wrong.  I second-guess myself pretty regularly, but I’ll get on the radio or look it up in the books to feel better.
You can read about my worst mistake at http://freedrop.wordpress.com/2008/02/23/my-worst-mistake/


How tall are you? 6’5”
« Last Edit: January 19, 2010, 12:55:03 PM by John Vander Borght »

JohnV

Re: Starting Mon., 1/18 - Get To Know John Vander Borght
« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2010, 11:41:28 AM »
John,

Care to share with us why you are an Object-oriented COBOL expert?
 :)
Not Cobol, just java and smalltalk and its been so long I'm not an expert on anything to do with computers.  For those who don't know, I was a software engineer for 20+ years before switching to golf rules administration in 2000.  I'd been a rules volunteer for 8 years before that.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2010, 12:57:15 PM by John Vander Borght »

JohnV

Re: Starting Mon., 1/18 - Get To Know John Vander Borght
« Reply #20 on: January 19, 2010, 11:43:25 AM »
I think I know the answers to at least some of these, but for the other folks who haven't been lucky enough to share a game with you:

What brought you to golf?
My dad.  I started playing when I was 10 with him.

Golf course architecture?Probably an article in the late lamented USGA Golf Journal about Cruden Bay.  It got me to go there when I was in Europe a couple of years later and I started to really look at things

This website?John Morrissett told me that he and Ran were starting this website back in 1999 when I was working the NCAA Division II Men's Championships

JohnV

Re: Starting Mon., 1/18 - Get To Know John Vander Borght
« Reply #21 on: January 19, 2010, 11:46:58 AM »
John - I always enjoy your rules blog.

1.  Do you think the grooves rule will have a significant impact on the game?
Not sure how signficant, but I bet Robert Allenby's flier over the green on 18 and chip back on Sunday would have been different.  Even Ryan Palmer's second shot there would have been as he was more worried about a flier than before.  I like the doubt it puts into the players minds.

2.  Do you have a view as to whether a reduction in the distance the ball travels would be positive for the game?
At the pro level yes.  At the amateur level no because they would blame every bad shot they hit on the GDed USGA / R&A and that would hurt the game in the long run.  No matter if you could tell them that it didn't have an effect, they would still think it would.

3.  What advice to you have for parents of kids that might be interested in competitive golf?
Get them good instruction, take them to the course and go home.  Afterwards ask them how they played, but don't punish them for poor play.  Too many parents hover.


JohnV

Re: Starting Mon., 1/18 - Get To Know John Vander Borght
« Reply #22 on: January 19, 2010, 11:48:06 AM »
John,

Are there any former Futures Tour players that you got to know several years ago that are now successful players on the LPGA Tour?
Christina Kim is probably the best player from my two years out there.  Everyone thought that Beth Bauer would be the next superstar, but she flopped after being rookie of the year in 2002.

Wade Whitehead

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Re: Starting Mon., 1/18 - Get To Know John Vander Borght
« Reply #23 on: January 19, 2010, 11:50:11 AM »
John:

Thanks for playing.

What percentage of PGA Tour players do you surmise know the rules as well as they should?

Which rule(s) would you guess is/are broken more than any other on Tour?  How about on Saturday mornings at the typical club?

WW

JohnV

Re: Starting Mon., 1/18 - Get To Know John Vander Borght
« Reply #24 on: January 19, 2010, 11:53:36 AM »
Your favorite Open, Amateur, and Mid-am courses, and why.
Open = I've only been to three US Opens at this point (PB '72, Olympic - '98 and Oakmont in '07.  I'll take Oakmont.  Amateur = I was at Pumpkin in '96, Oakmont in 03 and Southern Pines in 09.  Oakmont wins again although I think Tom Meeks' setup was over the top.  All three were really good.
Mid-Am = I've been Eugene in '94 and every one since '97.  I'd have to say Bandon, Milwaukee, Cassique and Honors are the top 4 in some order.


Compare and contrast: Pittsburgh V. Monterrey women. (Kidding! Don't go there!)
Don't know about Monterrey women, have you been reading George's old tee shirt?  Monterey women are pretty good though.

All the best, Jim.

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