Need for consultant on gas/regrass project

[Steve Pozaric]

My club is planning to gas the greens with methyl bromide this fall and regrass with either a1/a4 or T1.

We are  experimenting with different varieties on our practice holes to see what works best for us.  A couple of members have asked if we have a golf architect advising on the process. 

My question to the group is what purpose would this serve?  We know we will need to soften the slopes on two greens but otherwise the only changes are to the grass types.

Thanks

[Steve Lang]

  are you sure there is methyl bromide available to do this?  have you investigated alternatives since it is regulated under the Montreal Protocol on Substances that Deplete the Ozone Layer (Protocol) and the Clean Air Act (CAA)?

Turf (sod) methyl bromide alternatives:
 1,3-Dichloropropene
Chloropicrin
Iodomethane
Metam Sodium
Dazomet
Dazomet + Chloropicrin
Metam Sodium + Chloropicrin

[Forrest Richardson]

Steve — Where are you located? Maybe I know someone in your area.

Ideally, all golf courses should have a golf course architect they can turn to for questions, quick reads on plantings, tree removals, path work, drainage, etc., etc., etc.  Surprises me how many courses feel this will cost them, when the reality is that it nearly always saves costs by having someone who can put a large number of puzzle pieces together — very often, allowing 2 + 2 to equal 6, 7 or more.

[Ian Larson]

Gassing and regrassing greens isn't the department for a golf course architect. An agronomical consultant should be considered first....if that is even necessarry. A good super would know the ins and outs of what chemical is available and legal for the area as well as contracting an outfit to do the gassing. 

[Anthony_Nysse]

I would suggest getting an company to do the gassing work, therefor there is someone held liable and a finger can be pointed if some thing doesnt go right, especially when you're dealing with methyl bromide. It's a good way to CYA yourself.

[Steve Pozaric]

Steve:  We have been in contact and will most likelly use Hendrix and Dail.  There was talk last fall about a ban on 12/31, but then the GSCAA sent out an email that said methyl bromide would be available throughout '10.

Forest:  Thanks.  We have used someone that I might ask about reaching out to.  We are in St. Louis. 

Ian:  Appreciated.  We have a lot of coures in StL that are doing/have done the gas regrass.  Some have used A1, A4, a mix or T1.  Since we new we were planning to do this in the fall of '10, we are trying several mixes out on our nursery and practice greens.

Tony:  We are definately going outside to do the gassing work.  I would not want to take that on inhouse.  As mentioned above, I believe Hendrix and Dail our our first stop.  Someone in StL used another firm (or tried to) last year and it was a disaster.  I have not heard bad things about them.

[Forrest Richardson]

One of the best turf experts in your area is Michael Depew: 517-227-1127. Michael consults with golf, track fields, sports fields and the horse track industry. I would highly recommend him, especially for greens.

[Jeff Goldman]

Steve,

Any of the chemicals you listed aka Basamid?  We used it to regrass our fairways on 1 course, and our DOG is experimenting with it on a putting green. In theory it cleans out poa better because it nails all the seedheads in the soil. The other theory we heard is that once you have a lot of the poa out, you have a shot at keeping most out as time goes by with Velocity. Anybody with any experience on this?

[Steve Lang]

 

Jeff,

Did we meet at Banff?

One can look at MSDS for your "Basamid" ( see at http://www.certisusa.com/pdf-msds/basamid-msds.pdf) and find chem is same as search on "Dazomet" active ingredient, which has 3,5-dimethyl-1,3,5-thiadiazinane-2-thione, see the Chemical Abstract Service number (CAS Number) for it is 533-74-4 on both  

[Tim Nugent]

Jeff, Basimid works but you have to watch the weather, rain can be problematic and you need several days good days.  therefore it's hard to schedule.
Velocity is pretty potent stuff.  A little go along way.  It will yellow the tuf. Some guys pre-empt with an iron application a few days before to mitigate.  Others do multiple apps at half-rates until they get comfortable.  You may want to also look at some of the growth regulators/seed-head supression chemicals.  Timing is also critical with some of those as you have to hit the poa jus as it gets going.

[Bradley Anderson]

Steve,

I have too have always heard nothing but great compliments about Hendrix and Dail.

I think and architect can be helpful in every situation. You might need to remove trees for shade, change some mowing patterns, recapture some lost putting space. It is endless the amount of things that an architect will catch for you.

One thing I would encourage you to do is pull some soil samples from all these greens in to the shop and germinate some seed in them. You just never know if there is something out there that might effect germination.

[Jerry Kluger]

I met with the superintendent at Army/Navy Club in Arlington, VA where they gassed their greens and regrassed them very successfully.  Richard Mandell from Southern Pines was the architect on the job.  You should contact either one of them to get the specifics on how it was done - I do remember that the super was able to do most of the work in-house while Richard did the redesign of the holes and bunkers but they left the greensites.  BTW: they did the fairways in bermuda.

[Jeff Goldman]

Steve,

Indeed we did meet at Banff, and I believe one or two other places along the way.  Had an enjoyable finisher with you, Sheila, Clayman, et al at Banff the day we played the original routing, though was in a minor cart fender bender with Adam along the way. 

However, I left my chemistry knowledge in law school.  Thanks.

Jeff

[Steve Pozaric]

Thanks to all.  The input is appreciated.  Of course, I welcome more should others care to add.

[Mike Nuzzo]

Steve
For softening slopes I would suggest an architect
The cost is low for a small project
And I'm sure they could suggest a few efficient items for improvement while under the knife
Plus managing quantities, cost and schedule and letting the club know publicly is often part of the project description
Mike

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