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Jay Flemma

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Re: What is your favorite hole at National and why
« Reply #25 on: January 15, 2010, 04:33:15 PM »
Like I said, Ed, it's like giving a starving man a menu.  I also like 18 and 7.  What a finish 18 is...and I love Road holes and Road Bunkers.

I made a sandy out of the Road Bunker. :o ;D
Mackenzie, MacRayBanks, Maxwell, Doak, Dye, Strantz. @JayGolfUSA, GNN Radio Host of Jay's Plays www.cybergolf.com/writerscorner

Robert Emmons

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Re: What is your favorite hole at National and why
« Reply #26 on: January 15, 2010, 04:46:50 PM »
I like 7 best. The view from the faiway of the green sucks you in. You know their is trouble all over. Wonderful bunkers. Just great, and loads of fun....RHE

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What is your favorite hole at National and why
« Reply #27 on: January 15, 2010, 06:12:33 PM »
It is absolutely amazing so many people like the Alps best

What is yours, George?

Gene Greco

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What is your favorite hole at National and why
« Reply #28 on: January 15, 2010, 07:19:36 PM »
It is absolutely amazing so many people like the Alps best

What is yours, George?


My money is on "Bottle."
"...I don't believe it is impossible to build a modern course as good as Pine Valley.  To me, Sand Hills is just as good as Pine Valley..."    TOM DOAK  November 6th, 2010

George_Bahto

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What is your favorite hole at National and why
« Reply #29 on: January 15, 2010, 07:29:49 PM »
Dr Gene :    "Bottle" kind of sound like "Bahto"   - hah
If a player insists on playing his maximum power on his tee-shot, it is not the architect's intention to allow him an overly wide target to hit to but rather should be allowed this privilege of maximum power except under conditions of exceptional skill.
   Wethered & Simpson

JC Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What is your favorite hole at National and why
« Reply #30 on: January 15, 2010, 09:32:47 PM »
Dr Gene :    "Bottle" kind of sound like "Bahto"   - hah

Only when speaking like my 2 year old daughter :) ;)
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Jay Flemma

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What is your favorite hole at National and why
« Reply #31 on: January 16, 2010, 09:36:25 PM »
That's okay...my little nice calls her cousin Georgie "Daughtsie!" ;D
Mackenzie, MacRayBanks, Maxwell, Doak, Dye, Strantz. @JayGolfUSA, GNN Radio Host of Jay's Plays www.cybergolf.com/writerscorner

ChipOat

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What is your favorite hole at National and why
« Reply #32 on: January 22, 2010, 02:57:40 PM »
Too many candidates:

#3 - brilliant green complex although, with the new equipment, the long hitter now has too much advantage by being able to go up the right side off the tee
#4 - brilliant and better than any other others that followed
#6 - brilliant as it's 3 different holes that all require precision off the tee and missing the green is not a good idea under any circumstances
#7 - a better Road Hole green complex than the original
#8 - many choices off the tee and a demanding approach from anywhere
#12 - down wind, the approach is all finesse and precision
#18 - pure strategy; demands excellent execution on each shot.

Tim Nugent

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What is your favorite hole at National and why
« Reply #33 on: January 22, 2010, 03:23:51 PM »
Jay, now you die a happy man.  So it is true, the best day in the office is worse than a day in the freezing rain at Natiional?
Coasting is a downhill process

Patrick_Mucci

Re: What is your favorite hole at National and why
« Reply #34 on: January 22, 2010, 08:53:16 PM »
Chipoat,

I find # 14 and # 15 to be fabulous holes, especially when you're trying to hang on and finish with a decent qualifying score.

They also provide great match play interest as they can be easily lost with a careless or errant shot.

Part of the problem with picking good to great holes at NGLA is that there are so many to choose from and some may have a slight nod over the others, but, that doesn't mean that the hole that finishes 2nd to # 8 or # 18 or any of the others, is anything less than a good to great hole.  Good holes only seem to fall short when they're compared to great holes.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2010, 09:16:34 PM by Patrick_Mucci »

Anthony Gray

Re: What is your favorite hole at National and why
« Reply #35 on: January 22, 2010, 08:59:41 PM »


  Isn't the green at 6 the best? It has the most movement and interest.

  Anthony


V. Kmetz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What is your favorite hole at National and why
« Reply #36 on: January 23, 2010, 03:15:59 AM »
The first time I played NGLA the hole that grabbed me visually and set something of a "solvable" tone for an unknown experience was #2.     That vista is so monumental, with the broad Sahara bunker and Windmill along the left and the huge snaking fairway disappearing over the horizon, it's like the first time (of what will be many) that the course lives up to its reputation and exceeds your imagination.  Especially on the first playing and being unsure of where to go (even with a caddies line), you look at the card yardage...275??? and you refuse to believe that there isn't something very wicked on the other side of the hill.  There's almost an ironic deflation when you get up there and see the reality of that tee-hidden ground...and curse yourself for not being more confident in your blow.  From thereafter that first playing will influence your future playings in their days' climate and that's when you can get in real trouble trying to carry the heart of the Sahara (215) and keeping away from the left.

#8 and #17 would have to come after that...man, someone said it before, but after three playings I can say, unless a good wind is dead in the face when I can't reach the echelon bunkers, I don't know where to hit my tee shot on #8.  That hole has been the first ruination all three of my medal scores at NGLA: two "7s" and a "6"

Also #5 is a beautiful piece of golfing vista.

Cheers

VK
"The tee shot must first be hit straight and long between a vast bunker on the left which whispers 'slice' in the player's ear, and a wilderness on the right which induces a hurried hook." -

John Shimp

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What is your favorite hole at National and why
« Reply #37 on: January 23, 2010, 10:37:47 AM »
Another thing that I really enjoyed about ngla was how quickly the holes difficulty changed due to the wind.  18 was dead into a brutal wind and was so hard to play well.  1 was easily drivable with that same wind.  The entire round had those changes and the holes tack enough despite the general out and back layout that the wind shifts were really interesting.  Fun, fun place to play.

Patrick_Mucci

Re: What is your favorite hole at National and why
« Reply #38 on: January 23, 2010, 11:40:24 AM »
John Shimp,

A great day in golf is 36 at NGLA with a wind reversal on the second 18.

Playing into a wind accentuates your errors, magnifies and expands your shot patterns.

The neat thing about # 18 is that features and hazards, typically deemed far removed from play, come dangerously into play into a good head wind.

The flanking hazard suddenly becomes a real concern, especially with your second and third shot, thereby forcing the golfer left, into those left side features and hazards, which, from the left side, now force the golfer to hit toward the hazard or further down the left side into more devious features and hazards, until the golfer is faced with the ultimate challenge, hitting from the left side of the green, directly toward the hazard to what appears to be a sliver of a green, buffeted by a good left to right cross wind.

There's a hidden genius to the placement of many of the features and hazards on that hole that only becomes apparent to most when the wind shifts into their face.

One of the most delightful afternoons I ever spent was playing the 18th hole by myself, about 30 times.

With each play, a different situation presented itself.

My favorite hole location is all the way back, into the narrowed portion of the green.

When the golfer is back in the fairway, and can only see the pin/flag, with the wind in his face, it's one of the most frightening shots in golf when you know what's left, right and behind that green.

One of the first times I played # 18 there was a good wind in my face and I was about 80-100 yards from the green.
I took and 8-iron, closed the face, played it back in my stance and hit a low, hard punch shot that never got off the deck by much.  The shot ended up about 3 feet from the hole.
While that was very rewarding, when I went into the clubhouse a member approached me.  He had been watching from an alcove on the first floor.  He told me that the shot I had hit was one of the best shots he had ever seen on that hole.  He asked me what club I hit and why I played the shot the way I did.  His comments and questions made me feel even better about the hole, my evaluation of what lay before me, my decision making process and my execution.

You could stand about 100 yards from that green and hit every club in your bag to that green, just don't go left, right or long

Even 30 yard shots are knee knockers with a good wind in your face when the hole is cut to the back of the green.

It's just enormous fun and challenge, without ridiculous distance being a requirement

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

John Shimp

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What is your favorite hole at National and why
« Reply #40 on: January 23, 2010, 12:10:57 PM »
Patrick,
Thanks for your post.  Your day on 18 sounds like a ton of fun. 

My approach was from around 135, farther right than you'd like to be in the fairway with the exact back pin you described.  I tried knocking down a 5i. Hit it solidly but followed it too much with my right hand coming thru to steer it away from the hazard right.  It was pin high but well left. I tried a runner up the hill and got to play that shot again.  Missed an 8 footer for 6.  Fortunately i'd had a real nice run on the previous 5 holes and just laughed at my incompetence and how tough the course finished that day.

My host played a pretty squirrely iron that because it was thin worked under the wind and rolled back to about 15 feet.  He made a real nice par .  Our wind on 18 was coming from the right a bit.  Needed to hang your approach out there to put it on the back part of the green or really be able to work a cut which is really tough up that hill. 

I also wasn't able to figure out early enough how keeping the ball left on the 2nd shot has advantages.  Next time maybe?

TEPaul

Re: What is your favorite hole at National and why
« Reply #41 on: January 23, 2010, 12:47:49 PM »
"Re: What is your favorite hole at National and why?"


#1, #2, #3, #4, #6, #7, #8, #10, #11, #12, #13, #14, #15, #16, #17, #18.  I think that makes sixteen favorites! So what?  ;)

jkinney

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What is your favorite hole at National and why
« Reply #42 on: January 23, 2010, 04:41:28 PM »
Over the years I've realized that there are two places on the course where I always get goose bumps. The first is when I reach the crest of the fairway on 12 and see Bulls Head Bay again. The second is standing on the back tee of 17 with Shinny's clubhouse in full view to the SE and the panorama of Peconic Bay and the clubhouse in front of me N & W.

As to the holes themselves, I find Redan (4) to be top. To me it's the best par 3 anywhere.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: What is your favorite hole at National and why
« Reply #43 on: January 23, 2010, 04:48:02 PM »
Mr. Kinney:

Only a member at Shinnecock would look over his shoulder while standing on the 17th tee at National!

jkinney

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What is your favorite hole at National and why
« Reply #44 on: January 23, 2010, 04:52:31 PM »
Not true, Tom. Stanford White's magnificent architecture is often admired from that spot, and I actually think it's the best view of Shinny's clubhouse.

Jay Flemma

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What is your favorite hole at National and why
« Reply #45 on: January 25, 2010, 07:30:04 PM »
Chipoat,

I find # 14 and # 15 to be fabulous holes, especially when you're trying to hang on and finish with a decent qualifying score.

They also provide great match play interest as they can be easily lost with a careless or errant shot.

Part of the problem with picking good to great holes at NGLA is that there are so many to choose from and some may have a slight nod over the others, but, that doesn't mean that the hole that finishes 2nd to # 8 or # 18 or any of the others, is anything less than a good to great hole.  Good holes only seem to fall short when they're compared to great holes.

One of my friends who is a member has blown at least three tournaments on 15, taking 7s and 8s on it after being under par before arriving at the tee...

I also love your post about the wind change after the first 18!  I think the wind changed at least twice when I played there last...too bad the rain didn't!  It rained ALL DAY.....
Mackenzie, MacRayBanks, Maxwell, Doak, Dye, Strantz. @JayGolfUSA, GNN Radio Host of Jay's Plays www.cybergolf.com/writerscorner

Patrick_Mucci

Re: What is your favorite hole at National and why
« Reply #46 on: January 25, 2010, 08:52:34 PM »
Jay,

The spinelike fairway, that narrows with distance, feeding balls into adjacent bunkers tends to throttle and diminish the advantage of length over accuracy, although, there are some who prefer to hit wedge from almost anywhere versus a short to mid iron from the fairway.

However, the unique characteristics of that green can punish a misplayed or miscalculated approach, hence accuracy is a valuable commodity off the tee, probably more so than on any other hole with the possible exception of #8.