C+C creat something from nothing-5th at Cuscowilla

[NAF]

The 5th at Cuscowilla is a great golf hole. Simple and to the point.  After playing a delightfully good introduction to the course and a very good 4th hole with a cape-esque drive you arrive on the tee to #5.  If you could imagine the land in its
virginal state, it would be nothing but straight up a hill.  Not a steep hill, but a consistently rising one.  It seems no body likes uphill holes anymore that go straight up.  Given that C+C are minimalists they seized genius from the jaws of boredom or the kingdom of moving dirt to create a good golf hole over dull terrain.

When you gaze at the 5th, a cavernous bunker lies on the direct line to the hole starting at about 100yds from the tee and extending to 10 yards from the green.  It is probably about 30-40 yards wide at its peak.  The strategy is clear. Get your driver out and try to clear the bunker at 275 yards and run it on to the green or pick a fairway.  The bunker splits the fairway in two with a huge fairway right and a much
smaller looking (from the tee especially) fairway left.  If you go for the big fairway you are left with a poorer visual approach to the hole as you can see the flagstick but not the hole.  To confound you further the green is very small and crowned in turtle-esque fashion with chipping areas off to the right.  This is no easy up and down.

The left fairway(1/3rd the size of the right one)offers a full view of the green and a comfortable 3 or 5 wood will leave you 60-80 yards in..A very tight L-wedge or sand wedge can snuggle you close to the pin as my playing partner did but a muffled chip and run (which the green will hold) can leave a dicey up and down..

Hitting it in the fairway bunker is not death as good lies are possible and despite the difficulty of long bunkers shots, up and down is possible as I learned.

While the 5th is not my favorite hole at Cuscowilla (the first or tenth is), it just goes to show you how good minimalist design can be. Golf's most beloved figure and administrator of this site has some pictures of the hole and hopefully the course profile will have an updated photo of #5.

[TEPaul]

Ed:

#5 Cuscowilla might not look a thing like #17 Oakmont but it sounds like it plays strategically a bit like it. One option is to hit an enormous drive up the hill over the bunkers on the green and the other option is to hit it somewhere out to the fairway on the right which farther up actually sort of wraps around the bunkering up top to create a very interesting deceptive capish compromise option of getting much nearer the green than out to the right.

There is no left fairway option but if you happen to see Trey Holland standing up there just slam the ball way out to the left in high rough somewhere near the green and he might give you some kinda relief for another very interesting option!

[David Wigler]

Naf,

I am surprised at your compliment of #5.  Four of us GCA'ers argued extensively about that hole.  It is the only hole on the golf course that I felt did not work.  The sand trap actually ends about 30 yards in front of the green.  The carry is only 245 from the tips to get over the trap.  Furthermore, it is in a prevailing downwind.  You are correct that as long as you do not bury the ball in the face of the bunker, it is not a bad trap to get out of.  Therefore, there is no risk in ripping the ball at the green.  The green is shaped to hold the shot and the green complex is one of the weakest on the course.  Last summer, I drove it both days with a 3-wood.  This February, I turned over a Driver - pulling it left and over the bunker.  Instead of a penalty for my poor execution, I was left with a fairly simple 20-yard chip to a highly receptive green with no trouble between my ball and the hole.  I think that green should be reversed, the bunker or the hole lengthened, and a trap placed left to punish aggressive mistakes.  However, what do I know?

[NAF]

Dave,

My experience was much different..The hole played into the wind the day I was there, I have no idea what the prevailing wind is..I don't know where the tips were when you played but my caddies and the course guide said 275 to clear the traps.. I hit a full 3 wood (which I normally hit 230yds) and still had 80 to the pin from the bunker..In the afternoon with the wind down a bit, I still had 70 yds from the left fairway.  My playing partners (also GCA fans) very much liked the hole.

I found the green tough to hold and small..But that is the essence of the hole even from your view, if it can hold a well struck driver or even a 3 wood downwind, good on you for making the shot, you are rewarded..My point was this was a hole created right from the land in the minimalist vibe that still has strategic options. I did not find it at all out of context with the rest of the course..If i would have seen a lot of dirt moved to create something else that would have violated the character of the course which flows with the land.

[David Wigler]

Noel,

I am hoping a few others will join in on this.  It has the potential to be a great discussion.  This is one of Stettner’s favorite holes, while I feel it is the weakest on the course.  I would be curious what Gib and Shooter think, since Jeff and my disagreement was before they had played the course.

The root question to me is whether minimalist is OK when there is nothing there.  The huge bunker was clearly accomplished by significant earth moving.  C&C did a great job of giving it an "Always been there" feel but only meteorites and bulldozers can create something like that.  Since a ton of earth was being moved anyway, why not regrade the fairway and slope wayward shots into the bunker?  Why not dig it even deeper, so a bad shot is properly penalized?  Why leave the bailout area so wide to the right?  The hole is so short that a much tighter bailout area would have been acceptable.  Let us face it, with prevailing wind, this hold could be played 7-Iron, Pitching Wedge.  

This hole is just blah to me.  They did not place any real penalty on taking a risk, moved significant earth without benefit, and left the hole way too easy.  That written, they did their normal fantastic job of fitting the hole to the ground and fitting the hole to the golf course.  You are right in that it looks like it has been there forever.  Out of curiosity (And hoping to prove my point) did you make par both out of the bunker and to the left?

[NAF]

Dave,

I actually parred it from the sand with a nifty wedge but I shanked a pitch and run from the fairway and could not get up and down..Green speeds were very fast when I played last weekend as well..You are correct, it is a cavernous bunker that looks like a meteorite came thru it..I remember at Apache Stronghold where Doak was fortunate enough to have a big wash on one of the holes to divide fairways. Given they had nothing to work with I didnt mind them digging it up..

Like I said, I don't know the prevailing wind but I wouldnt think they would make the hole play downwind as it would be easy.  That is why I though they made it a short par 4. If anything they should not rake the bunker so you don't get a good lie.  I found strategy in that the right fairway relied upon a deft pitch because you could miss the green and need to get up and down. As for the 7iron and wedge comment, there are a lot of par 4s I could describe like that which would not be fun to play that conservatively.  The 8th or 9th at Cypress comes to mind.

[John_Conley]

Wiggles:

I think it is a great hole.  While it may be easy in relation to par of 4, it affords the chance to play however one chooses.

You could take a shorter carry left to the short side of the green, fly it right at the hole, or attempt a very easy "bailout" type tee shot to the right.

No matter what skill level, a player can make 3 if they execute the shots along the route they choose.  Compare that to design where it dictates what shot you play and what line you take.

Big fan of #5.  My fave modern, short par 4 is #5 at Southern Dunes.  While not driveable, it has even more routes to select from.

(During our Reynold's trip - which I think you passed on - the breeze was in my face on this hole.)

[Ran Morrissett]

David,

I am reluctant to comment as I've only played the hole once but is your principle concern that you found the 5th too easy?

I hit the same drive you described and was a few yards from thick hay that could have been disasterous. I do indeed feel like I "got away with one" but what would happen next time, I wonder? Perhaps I wouldn't be so lucky but I do know this - given that it was designed for the repeated pleasure of its members, isn't it nice that not every miscue is met with swift and harsh punishment?

How many times have you played it? How many times did you birdie it?

Don't you think that it makes a perfect compliment for the 465 yard, into the prevailing wind 6th?

To call the green complex "one of the weakest on the course" seems to ignore the right false front of the green and the narrow back shelf which slopes away in all directions.

Given how the options have been snuffed out of the 9th at CPC, I would rate the 5th at Cuscowilla as a superior hole.

I hope to have its pictures posted within the hour and I look forward to hearing further comments on it.

Cheers,

[David Wigler]

Ran,

You make an excellent point.  I have played the course 6 times (5 of the 6 in February the last 4 years).  I think I have 2 birdies, 3 pars, 1 bogey.  I have attempted to drive the sand trap each time.

In the context of an offset to 8-9-10, which is an unbelievably hard set of holes, 5 gives you a chance to get a shot that you will probably give back.  As a side note, the back 10th tee might be the most intimidating tee shot in Georgia.

I was viewing 5 on its own merits as opposed to viewing it in the context of the other 17 holes.

[TEPaul]

Ran:

What do you mean when you say; "given that the options on #9 CPC have been snuffed out?"

[BCrosby]

David -

I like no. 5.  A lot.

I have never heard anyone say the green is "easy to hold."  If anything, it is quite the opposite.  The green is small and severely crowned.  Balls just long or short of the pin will roll off in all directions.  There is a very small area that will accept and hold shots, from whatever direction.  All of which is appropriate for a very short par 4.  You must be a wedge player of consummate skill to find the approach shot on no. 5 uninteresting.

Yes, the green contours from the left are a little easier, but that is as it should be since approaches from that side will have risked carrying the wash-out.

I've played golf in Georgia for over four decades and I have yet to figure out what the "prevailing" wind is here.  Trust me on this, No. 5 does not usually play down wind.

Just so people are clear, that is not a man-made bunker that extends almost the entire length of the hole.  It is mostly a washed-out ravine that once fed water into the bog to the right of no. 4 green.  C&C may have helped it along a little, but these clay wash-outs are a natural feature in northeat Georgia (there was one behind the house where I grew up in).  It's ragged and rough but in it's own ugly way, I think it is beautiful.

I have played the hole up the left side and the right side and I'm still not sure which one is best.  There is very thick hay that will catch an over-cooked shot to the left.  Especially when it pays down-wind.  When it plays into the wind, the approach from the right - even though it is a short club - leaves little room for error.  The green is very intimidating from that side, in the sense that your effective landing area is so small.

A unique and wonderful hole.  

Bob

[Ran Morrissett]

Tom,

When I was there last in 1997, the tee ball on 9 at CPC was an automatic mid iron lay-up for all but the brain dead (and Phil M.   ) - the grasses and other stuff in the bunkers had spread and grown so thick and pervasive as to make the lay-up the only realistic play.

Compare that description to the photos in Geoff's CPC book on pages 120-125 where you'll see that MacKenzie was tempting the player to have a go from time to time as the area within the bunkers was 95% plus sand.

That "give it a rip" temptation is what has been snuffed out, or at least it had been several years back to my eye - perhaps Geoff  or Bob Huntley or Noel F. can comment on how it plays today.

Giving 5 at Cuscowilla or 7 at Sand Hills or 12 at St. Andrews or 10 at RM West a go from the tee helps makes those holes so special, as I'm sure you would agree.

Cheers,

[THuckaby2]

Ran - having played CPC only twice in my life, I am not nearly as qualified to comment here as the stalwarts you mentioned, but that never stopped me before.    I did play there 6 months ago.

I'd say the "give it a rip" aspect is alive and well on #9, but only if the pin is front right (which I'd have to guess it rarely is).  From the back tee, it's about 275 to that back left tier and well, it is pretty darn small and I just can't see any shot going that far holding that shelf.  Short of the green would be playable - the bunker is looking a lot like Geoff's pic, I thought - but long means death - your best hope would be to stay on #10 tee - and even then that's a shot you wouldn't wish on your worst enemy.  So even if you CAN make that heroic carry, which I figure a lot of people are capable of, it's just not a very good play to that pin.

I suppose a valid choice with a back left pin is to try and rip it on the right front, and that is VERY doable.  But do you want to try and putt up that tier?  That seems to me to be asking for a 3 (or more) putt.

Nope, if the pin is back left, the play is indeed a tee shot to a distance you like, then pitch on up.  Interesting, when I was there, we hit 4 different clubs off the tee and two birdies were made, both by the fellows who stayed the farthest back!  But only because Strawn and I holed heroic above the hole putts, and the Armenian missed a short uphill one.  Crazy game indeed.

Thus ends my dissertation on #9 at Cypress.

TH

[David Wigler]

Bob,

Your description is very interesting.  I would never in a million years have figured that bunker to be a natural feature.  I am a fairly competent wedge player but I have never hit a wedge longer than 50 yards into the hole.  I think most of us expect to be within 20 feet with a wedge from 5 - 50 yards out.  Once you drive it over the bunker, it is a perfect approach angle to hold the green.  Ran is right though, that is a stroke I need because if I play 8-9-10 2-over, I have done real well.