Kevin
Unless I am missing something, the area to the right, right of the hill still requires a carry and to a blind landing zone which I am not sure is all fairway. That said, I do like the idea of the second being blind from the right for the guys playing the back tees. Personally, I think there should be a tee on the left edge of the waste area, probably something like the distance of the forward tee which is around a 300 yard hole. The problem with the right forward tee is many folks who play it will not be able to carry the hill and the bunker the other side. This means they hit a putzy shot then try to make the carry in two. Additionally, they likely can't carry to the fat part of the fairway. The hole is too limiting for my grandma and on a public course she always has to have some consideration. Its issues like this which really contribute to making play very slow at The Road.
Ciao
I had to go back and look at the photos on #2 to refresh my memory, since I never even considered anything but going over the pit. To lay-up right (from one of the back tees) is a blind shot and it would be hard to visualize the shot, but the landing area is fairly wide (which you can clearly see when you hit from one of the forward tees). There isn’t really all that much of a carry to do it (maybe 100 yards to reach the right fairway if you’re playing from the tips). In my opinion, it’s a viable option if you don’t want to try & carry the pit. Again, from the Tips, this hole maxes out at 377 yards, so if someone doesn’t want to take on the challenge, the lay-up right in exchange for a longer approach is fair.
As for your suggestion about having a short tee on the left side of the waste area (in the 300 yard range), that would be fine, but this person may still have to carry the ball 140 yards or so, which is about the same distance as the front tee shot on 18 that many people complain about.
The front right tee actually requires no carry or even a lay-up. It’s actually a straight shot if they want to get to the fat part of the fairway (looking at the photo snapped from the 300 yard tees). Now, if they pull or push that attempt, they’ll end up in sand, but I don’t think there’s a need to hit a “putzy” shot first. If anything, the right front tees are built for Grandma, as opposed to a tee of the front left, which would require some type of carry.
However, if the criteria used to judge the course is whether Grandma can play it, then I would have to say she wouldn’t enjoy Tobacco Road, as well as a multitude of other courses. But you can’t say Strantz didn’t try. I just reviewed the entire course from the “Grandma” tees, and there are numerous “outs” given that I never even looked at while I was playing. The number of shots that would require 100+ yards of carry are very limited (a few on par threes), with the only real tough one being 18 (110 yards uphill). However, at what point do you draw the line for “playability?” My mother-in-law loves to play, but can’t carry the ball 100 yards. I can’t expect an architect to build a “no carry” course that would work for her, and still challenge me. I suspect the interminably slow play is caused by people who are trying to bite off more than their games can chew.
But, discussions like this are the reason we have discussions on GCA. It just gives me different perspectives to ponder, which can only help us all expand our appreciation of the Game.
My overall impression of Tobacco Road was that its reputation of being one of the Top 10 Toughest Golf Courses in the U.S. was based largely on visual intimidation and reputation, rather than the actual difficulty of the course (as was Tot Hill Farms), as I felt many of the “forced” options weren’t all that onerous. Also, since I don’t view having to hit from sand as a horrific penalty and I like getting creative with recoveries, the course wasn’t all that intimidating to me. Now, if you replaced 30% of the sand here with water, I’d probably flat out hate the course.
(BTW – Congrats on the Renaissance Cup Invite! Hope you can make the trip!)