Best Robert Trent Jones courses?

[Sean Leary]

I have heard the Eugene Golf Club in Oregon is a very good RTJ course and am thinking of going down to see it in the spring. Would it be worthwhile?

Really strong course with tough par 3s, with the usual Pacific NW caveat:  lots of trees!  A whole lot of trees!

One interesting thing to see in the clubhouse is the original Chandler Egan routing side by side with the reversed RTJ routing.

The club invited Jones out to look at the course.  He saw the tees with ponds in front of them and suggested turning the routing around so the greens would be protected by those ponds.

They are REALLY cool trees though. Often times you will see students out there studying the different types of trees since there are so many different types.

And aside from a couple of holes, it isn't that narrow.

[Mike Wagner]

Expanding on my earlier post regarding Spyglass:

Most folks keep referring to the first 4 holes as the best on the course, and if it weren't for them, well....

Isn't it really #'s 1 & 4?  If there's so much emphasis on the first four, the architectural merits broken down.  The only cool thing about #2 is the green.  #3 is the weakest par 3 on the course IMO.

I'm willing to bet most folks think they're so great because they can see the ocean......thoughts??

[Rob Rigg]

Was Egan's routing at Eugene or RTJ's flipped routing at Eugene better? (at least in theory)

From RTJs school of thinking the ponds in front of the greens is obviously superior, but from a more strategic school, I would imagine, Egan intentionally played over the ponds on the tee shots so they were not in play ().

Would the course be improved if "restored" to the Egan design?

Also, was the course heavily treed when Egan designed it or were they planted? We seem to have a knack for planting a lot of trees on our "classic courses" in the PNW - the sequoias at CECC are a prime example.

[Brock Peyer]

I played the Dunes this Spring and just loved it.  It challenges you off of the tee and into the green, the greens will give you pause and being right on the ocean it has a bit of a breeze as well.  It is one of those courses that I will try to play once a year and it's 376 miles from my house.

[Kevin Pallier]

Bart

I presume you mean RTJ Snr and not Jnr ? 

[Bart Bradley]

Kevin....Yes...see my list ...all RTJ Sr.

 .

Bart

[Sean_A]

Niall,

I would say that I am not alone in my opinion of Sotogrande vs. Valderrama. Most people over here share that feeling.

I do like Los Naranjos too, usually well maintained with fast greens. I would, however stick with the above or Las Brisas or Mijas Los Lagos  (although this one is very poorly maintained). Cabell Robinson does have a pretty solid layout called Santana which I don't know if you have played (and La Reserva is also fine)

Alfonso

Alfonso (or whoever)

How does Praia del Rey compare with RTJ courses?  I have only seen a few (Point O Woods RTJ courses and have been totally underwhelmed, but there was a bit of spark to PdR which was done by long time associate of RTJ - C Robinson.

Ciao

[Chris_Blakely]

Chris,
It was built back then and I think you're exactly right about the differences between it and the later stuff. I played it in early November and it was in very good condition. They were raising the green on the third hole and had it roped off. It's a good idea to get this one up in the air somewhat, given its location.

Another one that was built very early, before Casperkill, was Quaker Hill in Pawling NY. RTJ did it for Lowell Thomas on Thomas' estate. It's a wonderful example of a nine-hole country club. Nothing pretentious, great old barn clubhouse, nice set of greens. Beautiful setting, very quiet and peaceful, makes you feel like you never want to leave.   

Jim,

I have an even more obscure RTJ Sr. course built before both (sort of), you may have even played it.  Hancock GC in Hancock, NY.  It was started in 1941 and completed in 1959.  In the attached link, it says Hancock hired Thompson and Jones Architects out of New York to find the best land for the course and lay it out.

http://www.hancockgolfcourse.com/coursehistory.htm

Chris

[Jim_Kennedy]

Chris,
I have been there but I don't know how much time if any) RTJ spent at this site,  it's pretty free of any bunkers.

[Alfonso Erhardt]

Sean,

I can only speak of Spain. Sotogrande holds it place quite well against PdR. It is the course I would most highly recommend in southern Spain (which is not much of a recommendation in itself, by the way...).

The other courses look a little bit aged and probably more similar to other RTJ work elsewhere (at least from what I have been able to see in pictures). As I said in my other email to Niall, Robinson does have a couple of other solid layouts in Costa del Sol.

The only RTJ I haven't visited in Spain-Portugal is Troia, south of Lisbon which is supposed to be quite good....

[Matt_Ward]

One of the more underrated public courses -- started as a very private layout -- is Hominy Hill in Colts Neck, NJ. Has hosted the men's and women's public links events for the USGA -- only one other club I can recall has done that.

Very good layout that has held up well over the years.

Not on the first page of RTJ courses but one any design junkie should play when in the area.

[Ronald Montesano]

How about Montauk Downs, out on the tip of Long Island?

[Sean_A]

Sean,

I can only speak of Spain. Sotogrande holds it place quite well against PdR. It is the course I would most highly recommend in southern Spain (which is not much of a recommendation in itself, by the way...).

The other courses look a little bit aged and probably more similar to other RTJ work elsewhere (at least from what I have been able to see in pictures). As I said in my other email to Niall, Robinson does have a couple of other solid layouts in Costa del Sol.

The only RTJ I haven't visited in Spain-Portugal is Troia, south of Lisbon which is supposed to be quite good....

Alfonso

Yes, Troia does look very good in the pix, but it is the wrong side of Lisbon from the other courses and some great tourista stuff.

Ciao

[Greg Krueger]

I have only played 4 RTJ courses that I know of and loved all of them. I would rank them as follows:

1) Hazeltine
2) Peachtree
3) Golden Horseshoe
4) Tangelwood

[Jim_Kennedy]

Has anyone ever played/seen the 9 hole Pottawatomie golf course that RTJ Sr, built in 1939 for the city of St. Charles, Illinois? It looks pretty cool from the aerial, and there is even a par 4 w/an island green (with lots of room for mis-hits), supposedly RTJ's first. 

Chris,
I see that RTJ's 9 hole Fallsviews course in Ellenville is open again, and the resort has changed its name to Honors Haven.  Have you played it?

Sugarbush in Killington was always enjoyable. I haven't played there in years but I remember some blind shots and a lot of doglegs (and beautiful views). 

[Chris_Blakely]

Chris,
I have been there but I don't know how much time if any) RTJ spent at this site,  it's pretty free of any bunkers.

Jim,

I just figured the routing was his and bunkers either were never installed or filled in.  But, the course was in poor shape when I was there.

Chris

[Chris_Blakely]

Has anyone ever played/seen the 9 hole Pottawatomie golf course that RTJ Sr, built in 1939 for the city of St. Charles, Illinois? It looks pretty cool from the aerial, and there is even a par 4 w/an island green (with lots of room for mis-hits), supposedly RTJ's first. 

Chris,
I see that RTJ's 9 hole Fallsviews course in Ellenville is open again, and the resort has changed its name to Honors Haven.  Have you played it?

Sugarbush in Killington was always enjoyable. I haven't played there in years but I remember some blind shots and a lot of doglegs (and beautiful views). 

Jim,

Yes, I played the Fallsview course at Nevelle Grande about 8 or 9 years ago.  It has been awhile, but I remeber the course to be quite flat for the area.  The fact that I do not remember alot says something to me as I still remember many of the holes at Casperkill.

Is the other 18 holes still there - I believe Fazio may have renovated the other 18 holes at Nevelle Grande.

Chris

[Jim_Kennedy]

Chris,
It wasn't open this past season and the last thing I heard was that it was back on the auction block after a buyer backed away from it in September/October.

[Andy Troeger]

Haven't played a ton of RTJ Sr. layouts but count me among the group that likes Spyglass Hill quite a bit. Point O'Woods would rank #2 for me, but again the list is rather limited.

I wouldn't be surprised if the course is more RTJ Jr. than Sr. (listed as a collaboration), but Southern Highlands in Las Vegas is quite good as well.

I haven't gone through the thread in detail, but I also haven't seen any mention of his work at the Broadmoor in CO. I prefer the Ross holes on the East Course to the RTJ holes, but the course is a good one. Haven't played the West.

[Andrew Mitchell]

The only RTJ course I've played is Moor Allerton.

It hasn't made me keen to play any others!

[David_Tepper]

Anyone care to comment on Pauma Valley, a RT Jones course in North San Diego County?

[Jim Franklin]

1. Peachtree
2. Eugene
3. Pine Tree
4. Hazeltine
5. Spyglass

[Anthony_Nysse]

1. Peachtree
2. Eugene
3. Pine Tree
4. Hazeltine
5. Spyglass

Pine Tree was designed by Louis Sebett Wilson, AKA, Dick Wilson.

[Deucie Bies]

I thought Shady Oaks in Fort Worth had some decent holes on it.

[Doug Wright]

I haven't played many RTJ courses. I think the first I played was Albany Country Club in a college tourney. All I remember is that it was long and very difficult and I hated the runway tees. Although I concur with others about Spyglass's routing, what he did with those first four holes  is great--what an introduction to the round. I also like Port Royal in Bermuda, though it's been many years since I've played it and would like to see it again with the massive tree removal that seems to have occurred with the renovation. The routing and use of the topography is really good at Port Royal IMO. Finally, I played the Cornell course many times while in law school. Although it certainly is representative of RTJ's work as it's a "big" course with large greens and a lot of hard par/easy bogey holes, I would say it's a solid but not great golf course.  

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