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A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Another foreclosure
« on: January 01, 2010, 08:42:13 PM »
I'm not sure if this has been posted already, but it was announced last week that The Country Club of the South in Atlanta would be sold at auction on the Fulton County Courthouse steps on Jan. 5.

Country Club of the South is a 25 yr. old Nicklaus course; the subdivision (which is separate from the club) is the home of a number of professional athletes from the Atlanta pro teams, many of whom play their golf at the club. The club owes $9.5 million, Bank of North Ga. has called the loans, and the club has defaulted.  I'm not sure why the club would owe so much after 25 yrs., and the belief is that it will continue to operate under new management; no real momentum toward closing it or selling the real estate, I don't believe.

It isn't a great golf course, especially for the $20,000+ initiation and the $500+/month dues, but it IS something of a major player on the Atlanta golf scene.  Tough times to be in the golf business...
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Craig Sweet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Another foreclosure
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2010, 09:17:31 PM »
No...it's tough times to be owing $9 million...
LOCK HIM UP!!!

A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Another foreclosure
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2010, 09:20:58 PM »
No...it's tough times to be owing $9 million...

Good point.
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

SB

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Another foreclosure
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2010, 10:11:11 PM »
The developer sold the club to the members around 2000 for around $15M.  The $9.5M financed part of the purchase price and perhaps some improvements along the way.

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Another foreclosure
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2010, 02:27:11 PM »
AG,
Several members are trying to buy it at foreclosure.....the bank had already offered a substantial discount( like .40 cents on the dollar) but members could not make the deal.....they had a 15million bond with North Ga bank and had used 11 million of it....another 4 mill was there for improvements but they had never gotten that far.....with the present set-up even buying it a 3 million does not make much sense.....clubhouse kills it and members are gone elsewhere....

Also Heritage (Dr. J) is supposed to go Tuesday....on leased land at $350,000 per year and Textron has about 11.5 million note on it...it might get stopped....don't know....

And if info is correct two more ATL courses will go next month......

"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Another foreclosure
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2010, 04:32:34 PM »
AG,
Several members are trying to buy it at foreclosure.....the bank had already offered a substantial discount( like .40 cents on the dollar) but members could not make the deal.....they had a 15million bond with North Ga bank and had used 11 million of it....another 4 mill was there for improvements but they had never gotten that far.....with the present set-up even buying it a 3 million does not make much sense.....clubhouse kills it and members are gone elsewhere....

Also Heritage (Dr. J) is supposed to go Tuesday....on leased land at $350,000 per year and Textron has about 11.5 million note on it...it might get stopped....don't know....

And if info is correct two more ATL courses will go next month......



Mike,
I figured the clubhouse was at least part of the problem; I was there for a wedding reception a couple of years ago, and that is one HUGE and ornate building.  I didn't realize that they had lost membership, though.

To say that you have aroused my curiosity about the other ATL courses is an understatement.
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Chris Cupit

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Another foreclosure
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2010, 12:53:55 PM »
OK, here is what I know.

Country Club of the South is literally a chip shot away from my club's 15th tee and from my driving range to drive to their back entrance is 7/10ths of a mile.  However, we could not operate on more different private club models.

CCoS is member owned, HAD an ID of $35,000 at one time and the current monthly obligation if you include all mandatory fees, minimums, capital charges is $783.33 (or it was a few months ago).  When the market for IDs fell out last year it crippled higher end privates that had not quite made it as an elite (Atlanta Athletic, Peachtree, Cherokee...) and needed initation fee income to operate.  There are members with over $100,000 in assessments and original capital "invested" in the club and Tuesday will wipe all those investment dollars out :o

What I know about the note is straight from Brad Beard, the club's banker at Bank of North Georgia (Synovus) and is public record.  Interestingly, I had approached Brad about banking my club in 2006 during my renovation and was turned down because they would have had too much concentration of club debt in one area.  I also called to give Brad the "needle" a bit about picking the wrong club ;)

 Heritage Golf Group, led by Bob Husband, has the inside track with the bank right now.  Heritage Golf Group owns and operates White Columns, Atlanta National and Polo Golf and Country Club in the north metro area.  They also manage/own many TPC properties all over the CArolinas, Texas, Florida and Michigan.  They are known as "high end" operators.  

They were chosen among several companies (Affiniti Golf Group and Sequoyah Golf--the Canongate Group as they are better known in Atlanta) by the bank to manage the club and eventually assume the note.  The bank also said no to Troon Golf as they wanted a local company.

The bank may have offered a discount on the note a while back but I don't think it was 40%.  I spoke to Brad myself about making an offer on the note as there were interested people and Brad knows I am in the business and right next door.  Absolutely no discount of the note was offered and the note is a bit more complicated than a straight note of $9.5.

Actually, the note is structured in such a way that credit default swaps and rate swaps mean the note is actually between $9.3 and $11.25 MM.  The "basic" number today based on rates is $10M.   The bank, based on their outside analysis believes the club can service the debt if properly run and based on some numbers I've seen I don't think that is too much of a stretch.  It is hard to describe how pooly run this member owned club was.

The conventional wisdom is this:  No one will bid on the loan and the bank will bid its own note and take back the club and turn over the day to day operations to Heritage whom it hopes will find other financing to take the bank out in 3 years or so.

However, the latest rumor is that while the bank is not discounting the note, they would stay in and finance the project with as little as $2.5 in equity put in.  I have no doubt that there are many wealthy people in CCoS, however they have not been able to organize a group to date and every time your hear of a member group bragging, er, talking about "just buying the place ourselves" when it comes time to write that check there are never enough guys to pull it off.

This Tuesday at either 141 Pryor Street or 7700 block of Roswell Road anyone can bid on CCoS.  An auctioneer will call out an opening bid and the games begin.  If you win the bid you must have certified funds for 15% of the sale price on that day and you have 30 days to pay the balance or lose your deposit.  Again, the rumor is the bank will finance 75% of it for you but I assume you would want to work that out first before raising your hand ;)

« Last Edit: January 03, 2010, 01:04:59 PM by Chris Cupit »

Chris Cupit

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Another foreclosure
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2010, 01:03:54 PM »
Mike,

I realize you are talking about Heritage (Dr. J) going on the auction block and I just want to make sure everyone knows I am speaking of Heritage Golf Group which isn't the same.

Also, at $3M CCoS would be a steal!  The bankers, despite evidence to the contrary, are not fools and they know the value of that property.  I will be there Tuesday and if it is sold for $3M you can come over and play my new course ;D

Celebrity Golf Club may be a stretch at $3M but I have no clue about their numbers.

Just to clarify though, were you suggesting that CCoS could be bought for $3M TOTAL or $3M over the outstanding debt?  Obviously I think $3M total is the steal but not $14M. 

 

Anthony Butler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Another foreclosure
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2010, 01:19:40 PM »
Mike,

I realize you are talking about Heritage (Dr. J) going on the auction block and I just want to make sure everyone knows I am speaking of Heritage Golf Group which isn't the same.

Also, at $3M CCoS would be a steal!  The bankers, despite evidence to the contrary, are not fools and they know the value of that property.  I will be there Tuesday and if it is sold for $3M you can come over and play my new course ;D

Celebrity Golf Club may be a stretch at $3M but I have no clue about their numbers.

Just to clarify though, were you suggesting that CCoS could be bought for $3M TOTAL or $3M over the outstanding debt?  Obviously I think $3M total is the steal but not $14M. 
 

Good luck with all that, Chris.

From my one time on the property, I think the perception of the actual course was heightened due to the fancy surrounding homes etc... I haven't set foot on the place for 11 years, but conditioning was not the problem. Also the new owner can't offer up the sight of Smoltz, Maddox and Glavine teeing it up, which is what happened when we were there.

Next!

Chris Cupit

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Another foreclosure
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2010, 01:38:49 PM »
AB,

CCoS is beautiful in many respects but it always has had the following issues:

1.  A good but certainly not great course.  Less than inspired for JN for sure.
2.  A course in good, but not great condition and facing some issues (poa in greens, cart paths needing repair, "curb appeal" that is "fine" but not what you see at courses it gets compared to--Atlanta Athletic Club, Hawks Ridge, Cherokee.
3.  A very high end neighborhood but one that is not a golfing neighborhood that supports the club.  In fact, there is outright bad blood at times between the club and the neighborhood.
4.  It is surrounded by public, less expensive private and equal clubs that give its customers tons of choices.

One quick story of a husband and wife that visited my far less expensive club about two weeks ago.  They have lived in Atlanta for 18 months and don't really know a lot of people.  They move into a high end neighborhood near CCoS and me.  Two months ago CCoS sends them a flyer telling them all about the club and telling them of a late season program where they can join for little or no ID.  The couple calls and is told they need two member sponsors, go in front of a membership committee and is generally made to feel un-wlecome and they were the ones being solicited in the first place!

They said "screw it" and came to me :D

« Last Edit: January 05, 2010, 05:17:39 PM by Chris Cupit »

SB

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Another foreclosure
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2010, 04:08:45 PM »
Chris, if CCoS is going to go for $3M the line for bidding will start behind me!

A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Another foreclosure
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2010, 10:00:47 PM »
AB,

CCoS is beautiful in many respects but it always has had the following issues:

1.  A good but certainly not great course.  Less than inspired for JN for sure.
2.  A course in good, but not great condition and facing some issues (poa in greens, cart paths needing repair, "curb appeal" that is "fine" but not what you see at courses it gets compared to--Atlanta Athletic Club, Hawks Ridge, Cherokee.
3.  A very high end neighborhood but one that is not a golfing neighborhood that supports the club.  In fact, there is outright bad blood at times between the club and the neighborhood.
4.  It is surrounded by public, low end private and equal clubs that give its customers tons of choices.

One quick story of a husband and wife that visited my far less expensive club about two weeks ago.  They have lived in Atlanta for 18 months and don't really know a lot of people.  They move into a high end neighborhood near CCoS and me.  Two months ago CCoS sends them a flyer telling them all about the club and telling them of a late season program where they can join for little or no ID.  The couple calls and is told they need two member sponsors, go in front of a membership committee and is generally made to feel un-wlecome and they were the ones being solicited in the first place!

They said "screw it" and came to me :D



Excellent summary of the problems.  It will be very interesting to see how whatever management company takes over addresses these issues.  At the top of the list would be the general feel of the place, which is not very welcoming, as your story highlights.
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Another foreclosure
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2010, 12:21:00 PM »
The bankers, despite evidence to the contrary, are not fools and they know the value of that property. 

Define "fools."  You apparently have a pretty high bar!

Take it from someone who's been reading a few legal descriptions out loud at the courthouse recently, the bank will be the proud owner on January 5th.  I'm guessing they'll bid it in at $6,000,000. 

Mike
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Lester George

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Another foreclosure
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2010, 12:23:06 PM »
A.G.,

One over simplified explanation (and I am generalizing here) is that when the developer built it he probably spent three to five times the going rate to build his Nicklaus Course so he could maximize his lot-sales potential.  

Eventually, to recover as much as he could, he sold his Nicklaus Course to the members for as much as he could.  

In theory, they are that much in debt BECAUSE they completely over-spent in the development end which is what everone did when we handed out money at every bank in the country.  I'll bet many banks tried to get into "the deal" because it was going to be the greatest course ever built.  

Had they been a little more conservative, or possibly checked their egos at the door, they may still be viable.  This is happening everywhere, not just the high-end products.  But, the courses that were built for less money and carried less debt are the ones that are more attractive to the banking industry right now.  


Lester

SB

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Another foreclosure
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2010, 01:37:08 PM »
Lester, you are not far off.  The developer had a contract to sell the course to a management company, and the members (sort of) had a right to match the offer, which they did, probably not really considering the consequences.  I can't remember how much the developer had invested in the club at the time, but it's safe to say it paid off for him, given that CCoS was THE address in Atlanta for many years.

Anthony Butler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Another foreclosure
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2010, 07:21:20 PM »
AB,

CCoS is beautiful in many respects but it always has had the following issues:

1.  A good but certainly not great course.  Less than inspired for JN for sure.
2.  A course in good, but not great condition and facing some issues (poa in greens, cart paths needing repair, "curb appeal" that is "fine" but not what you see at courses it gets compared to--Atlanta Athletic Club, Hawks Ridge, Cherokee.
3.  A very high end neighborhood but one that is not a golfing neighborhood that supports the club.  In fact, there is outright bad blood at times between the club and the neighborhood.
4.  It is surrounded by public, low end private and equal clubs that give its customers tons of choices.

One quick story of a husband and wife that visited my far less expensive club about two weeks ago.  They have lived in Atlanta for 18 months and don't really know a lot of people.  They move into a high end neighborhood near CCoS and me.  Two months ago CCoS sends them a flyer telling them all about the club and telling them of a late season program where they can join for little or no ID.  The couple calls and is told they need two member sponsors, go in front of a membership committee and is generally made to feel un-wlecome and they were the ones being solicited in the first place!

They said "screw it" and came to me :D



Chris,

Sounds like conditions at CCoS have deteriorated since my last visit. That story about soliciting members and then treating them like they were lucky to get to the top of a 10-year waiting list is somewhat familiar... organizations who don't adjust their customer experience to match the economic times we live in (with the exception of government mandated monopolies like health care insurers, cable companies, investment banks etc...) may find they don't make it out the end of the depression we're in.

In this case, I'm happy to hear it ended up meaning more business for you.

arb:
Next!

Chris Cupit

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Another foreclosure
« Reply #16 on: January 05, 2010, 05:14:10 PM »
Bank of North Georgia bid their own note and started the bidding at $11,181,597.00  No one else bid.  BNG has hired Heritage Golf to manage the property for them and I am sure they can't wait until some other lender can help Heritage complete a sale.

Heritage is an excellent operater and this is about the best outcome the mebers could hope for--even if they did just lose all their equity :(
« Last Edit: January 05, 2010, 05:20:41 PM by Chris Cupit »

Brock Peyer

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Re: Another foreclosure
« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2010, 10:29:28 PM »
What is the full story on Heritage/Celebrity?

Chris Cupit

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Re: Another foreclosure
« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2010, 12:31:58 AM »
What is the full story on Heritage/Celebrity?

No idea. 

If he's recovered from the thrashing at the hands of Iowa maybe Mike Young can help.  He knows far more about Heritage/Celebrity than me. 

Sorry Mike, bad night for the bees.  Totally dominated at the line of scrimmage :(

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Another foreclosure
« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2010, 07:52:28 AM »
Chris,
It's cold down here in S FL....and bees need warm weather ;D ;D

Brock,
Don't know what happened yesterday re Heritage but basics are ..50 year land lease with about 38 years left...$350,000 per year....then Textron has about 11 million or more in a non recourse note.....as you can imagine that scenario is n't working...but the family that owns the land would get the course if Textron or someone was not paying the lease...so most likely it will keep rolling in some form and someone will take a hit....
Cheer
Mike
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

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