[Kevin Pallier]

I have had the opportunity to sort through many photos and thoughts surrounding my USA trip this Fall. I will begin to post these on some threads.

My trip began in NY and I will logically start there....

Shinnecock Hills (SH) is certainly close to “the best” course I saw on my trip to the USA - it oozes "class" in spades.

SH has interesting driving angles, a wonderful variety of holes and routing changes, great use of the topography, a lovely setting, strategic options abound and I haven’t even mentioned the fantastic greens !! They were and absolute joy to putt on  - close to the purest I've ever seen. You would think they could convert it to a Tournament setup at the click of some fingers.

Interestingly the course only has two scorecard P5’s (5 and 16) but there are a number of tests out there including four strong P3’s and some damn tough P4’s and Flynn and Toomey have done an amazing job of routing the golf course with the prevailing breezes in mind.

Holes I noted:
1st = “Westward Ho” an interesting P4 start of 390yds and the elevated tee to an angled fairway is a constant theme throughout SH. I noticed the firm ground around the greens and lovely little chipping areas off to the back and sides.


4th = “Pump House” I loved this P4 hole around 430yds on fairly flat terrain. With the fairway right bunker protection and lovely little entrance to the green within which one can play a bump’n’run or take an aerial approach.


7th = “Redan” of 190yds has a smaller target than some of the others I’ve seen and I question the need for the top right bunker on such a severe downward sloping green ?


10th = “Eastward Ho” is one tough P4 of around 410yds that certainly asks questions on each and every shot


11th = “Hill Head” this uphill P3 target of 160yds is a difficult one to hold. I went over the back and have no idea how anyone other than a very good player can save par from there.


A recent photo on GCA re: the back of #11 (c/o Chips Gaskins)


14th = “Thom’s Elbow” a long P4 of 440yds which again starts with an elevated drive to an angled fairway and a green tightly tucked into a saddle at the corner of a hillside.


18th = “Home” a strong closer at 450yds and how Cory Pavin knocked that 4W onto that green under the pressure of a Major championship possibly Y E Yang may have an idea ?


The setting and ambience only add to the experience at SH and lunch in the clubhouse was topped of by a first-class menu (incl: snapper soup). A fantastic golf club – a truly memorable all-round experience.

[Mark Chaplin]

Kevin - A great start, I look forward to this "series". From my US experiences the run off is far too under used, firm sloping greens still require chipping of great touch rather than the ball stopping a yard off the green in thick rough. This just leaves a hack and hope for the majority of players.

[JC Jones]

Kevin,

Thanks for this.  You're trip was amazing to read about from a macro level, I can't wait to get into the details.

[Cliff Hamm]

Kevin - A great start, I look forward to this "series". From my US experiences the run off is far too under used, firm sloping greens still require chipping of great touch rather than the ball stopping a yard off the green in thick rough. This just leaves a hack and hope for the majority of players.

I do believe that using chipping areas instead of rough is one of the great architectural changes of the last 10 years or so.  That and wider fairways with fewer trees.  Both of these trends are seen on many, many of the courses now being built.

[Jud_T]

Kevin,

Awesome pictures and awesome trip!  Given that you've now played more top U.S. courses than most locals we're going to have to head down under for a little payback!!   

[Matt Day]

the more I see photo's of Shinnecock the more I'm thinking of ways to get there. Great photos Kev

[Ash Towe]

Kevin,

Thanks for sharing.  I never tire of seeing peoples photos and descriptions of this great course.

Looking forward to the other places you played and visited.

[Kevin Pallier]

Kevin - A great start, I look forward to this "series". From my US experiences the run off is far too under used, firm sloping greens still require chipping of great touch rather than the ball stopping a yard off the green in thick rough. This just leaves a hack and hope for the majority of players.

I agree Mark - I love courses where ones imagination and creativity can be used after missing the green. Friars Head is another course close to SH that allows that.


The only thing I felt SH lacked was a great short P4. Hole #13 "Road Side" was probably the closest in this category but at 370 yds driver was still the obvious option as opposed to thinking about taking same.

[Kevin Pallier]

National Golf Links of America (NGLA) was an “unbelievable” experience. Whilst I did not play it - I had the opportunity to study it by walking the routing and garner an appreciation of the architecture on offer in greater detail.

None of CB Macdonald’s template holes felt forced or out of place – the land and routing is exquisite and if there was one course that I wish I could go back too most this may well be it. How could one ever tire or get bored from playing it ?

It begins with a wicked greensite, and is followed up by a Sahara, an Alps, a Redan, a Hogs back, a Short, a “Road Hole” etc. I felt the F9 was much better than the B9 which for mine primarily got strong from around the Cape hole 14th inwards.

Holes I noted:
1st = “Valley” a short P4 of around 320yds with a green that was aptly put to me by Ed Getka as a “squashed elephant” with a rise and ridges off to all corners. If this hole doesn’t get your juices flowing I don’t know what will.


4th = “Redan” This 195yd P3 might even be better than the original. I could play this hole all day long given its angles.


6th = this “Short” downhill P3 of 140yds is a lovely exposed hole and I’m surprised there aren’t more of these “great” holes built.


7th = I never thought the St. Andrews “Road Hole” could be replicated but this 480yd effort gives a good account of itself. There is the drive across a hazard, and a greensite protected by one lone front bunker. Whilst the difficulties over the back aren’t as impressive as the original at TOC - the hole at NGLA is pretty good all the same.


8th = “Bottle” is a fantastic P4 of around 420yds with a split fairway by centreline bunkers and wonderful perched greensite.


13th = I couldn’t see many similar characteristics with the “Eden” at TOC other than length 170yds ? Probably the only standout “weaker hole” at NGLA for mine if I was being overtly critical.


14th = “Cape” I love this hole as I love the 2nd at North Berwick with the NGLA one being distinctly shorter and I believe the hazard distinctly reduced overtime ?


16th = this uphill “Punchbowl” of 404yds was interesting. I don’t know what was with the “hairy” grass mound in the middle of the bunker short of the green ? It looked a bit overdone for mine. The collection within the green was superb though.


17th = “Peconic” a classic risk v reward hole at 375yds downhill. Take the easier right hand drive for a longer and more difficult approach over a mound to a green that receives a ball better from the shorter but more difficult left hand side. A superb hole.


Having seen a lot of the original “template” holes throughout GB&I it was great to see Macdonald’s versions. What a study in architecture – the course and clubhouse are absolute National Treasures.

I think Ran sums up NGLA's impact as well as one can  – “Is there any disappointing aspect to The National Links? Yes, that subsequent architects evidently failed to appreciate many of its design merits. “

[JC Jones]

Kevin,

How would you compare your ability to assess the architecture of a course walking it vs playing it? 

[ed_getka]

Kevin,
     Thanks for taking the time to share the pix and commentary. I have really been looking forward to these. Well done. Given what you have seen in your golf travels around the world what one course would you send someone to to learn about golf course architecture?

[Cristian]

Thanks for a great picture thread.

Although they are different courses obviously NGLA and SH have a lot in common being so close to each other. What were the most important differences between the two (land- and design wise)? Which is the stronger design for you?

[Jay Flemma]

That bunker on 7 is almost too tight to swing in.  It almost ISN'T big enough for one angry man and his wedge!

[Kevin Pallier]

JC

I would hope with the volume coupled with cross-section of courses that I've seen that I'm able to differentiate quality pieces of architecture from one another whether I be walking it or playing it. In a perfect would I'd love to do both to each and every great course I've seen.


Ed

I couldn't nut it down to one golf course but if I was in:
GB&I
I would recommend TOC, North Berwick, Royal Dornoch
Aust
Royal Melbourne, Kingston Heath and Barnbougle Dunes
USA
NGLA for sure....then I'd say Merion and Sand Hills to name but three.

[Kevin Pallier]

Although they are different courses obviously NGLA and SH have a lot in common being so close to each other. What were the most important differences between the two (land- and design wise)?

Cristian

It's interesting how the two layouts differ.

NGLA is pretty much an out and back layout with topography changes - some subtle some more significant - throughout the round.

SH has an interlooping routing with rarely having consecutive holes in the same direction. Other than the drive on #1 and approach on #9 the F9 is relatively flat. The B9 has much more significant movements in topogrpahy.

On both courses rarely do trees if ever come into play for but for very poor drives.

Which is the stronger design for you?

It depends on one's definition of "stronger" ?

Certainly if I was looking for a challenge I'd lean towards SH - if I was wanting to have more fun I'd love to have a game around NGLA

I love both courses they are 10's in my book.

[Kevin Pallier]

Fishers Island (FI) the “Cypress of the East” was a fantastic day out and I can’t think of many other experiences throughout the trip - maybe Sand Hills - where you feel totally alone with just you and the golf course.

I think Raynor’s routing is superb with water views on virtually every hole and I don’t think but a few modern architects could have done as good a job as him. Like NGLA there is so much great architecture on offer you could not possibly tire playing this course.

I played FI on a pretty benign day with a wonderful 4/5Ball– the fortified greens with huge bunkers would be a massive challenge in any sort of wind. Donald Beck does a superb job in keeping the firm’n’fast conditions around and on the greens and FI was one of the major highlights of my trip.

Holes I noted:

3rd = “Plateau” of 335yds is all about the approach to the greensite for mine. A brilliantly exposed uphill green is protected by steep bunkers on the sides / back and overly strong shot in is punished.


4th =  “Punchbowl” of 397yds after a difficult drive over a valley one then is faced with a blind 2nd “Alps” shot to a bowled green. I understand there are plans to cut the sides into sharper and stronger edges to really get a full punchbowl green effect.


5th = “Biarritz” of 207yds again a drive across a valley to a stepped green whereby a “strong” approach is needed.


6th = “Olinda” is a roller-coaster P5 of 520yds which pretty much joins one edge of the island to another. Again there is an exposed green and one that is quite narrow.


10th = “Knoll” at 401yds similar to the 3rd this hole is all about the green v the approach shot – only in reverse. A weak shot in is punished by a steep slope. Who needs bunkers to make a hole tough ?

 
11th = “Eden” at 164yds. Quite possibly my favourite on the course. A drive over a valley to a green perched on an exposed knob. All this and you get some wonderful views as well.


15th = “Long” at 533yds was probably the only “lesser hole” on the course for mine. The drive and approaches are fairly mundane. The greensite somewhat makes up for it with some lovely movement in it.

16th = “Short” at 146yds. A small drop down approach to a green that is sloped back to front with a couple of tiers in it so putts above the hole are very quick.


18th = “Home” at 452yds is a classic half par hole. Loosely similar in playing characteristics to the 17th at TOC - drive across a cape then an approach to a green that is quite narrow with a large central bunker defending the kidney shaped green.


FI occupies a “special place” in world golf and is an absolute joy to play. Raynor has created his version of CBM’s template theme and like NGLA - no holes feel forced or out of place.

We almost missed the last ferry ride to the mainland in the evening and I can’t say I would have been that disappointed if that was to have been the case. It would have meant we could have definitely slipped another game in at the layout in the morning – I could think of worse outcomes !!

[Jud_T]

Kevin,

Thx for the pix! Brings back some great memories....

[Patrick_Mucci]

Kevin,

Great pictures.

What a trip.

I'd be hard pressed to think of three better clubs in one County.

I'll comment on the holes when I have some time, but, thanks again, the photos capture much of what the golfer sees.

[JC Jones]

Kevin, it appears from the pictures that you are as enamored with Ed's high finish as you are the course.  True?

Great shots of what looks like a great course.  Did you play any other (sole) Raynor on your trip (i.e. Yale)?  Would be good to know how they compare.

[John Mayhugh]

I wish I had a pic of that desolate ferry lot.  Even more, I wish I had a video of the loading process.   

Great pics and commentary Kevin.

[Kevin Pallier]

Kevin, it appears from the pictures that you are as enamored with Ed's high finish as you are the course.  True?

Great shots of what looks like a great course.  Did you play any other (sole) Raynor on your trip (i.e. Yale)?  Would be good to know how they compare.

JC

Well Ed hit the ball OK for a guy who had driven 11 hours the night before and only had a few hours sleep

Unfortunately I didn't get to Yale - despite Ed's badgering for me to go see it. I hear very good things about it ? Would love to have had the time to see more Raynor work.


John

I wonder if Jason has had someone say "take your hands off the wheel" since ? 

[ChipOat]

A few quick thoughts:

#4 at Shinnecock almost always plays into the prevailing wind so, at least for a person of my meager talents, a "bump and run", or any low, running approach, isn't usually the shot.  You must have played SHGC (and walked NGLA) on an unusually calm day.

#11 at SHGC is, IMHO, the single best par 3 ever built entirely by man (i.e. no water hazard like #16 at Cypress).  Also, it usually plays downwind, which only makes it tougher.  For the life of me,  I don't understand why that hole hasn't been copied by others.

The Front vs. The Back at National:  Interesting perspective as you 1) walked the course but did not actually play it and 2) I'm guessing you did so on a relatively calm day (see above).  Although the Outward Nine has, arguably, more "great" holes (#'s 3,6,7,8 are extraordinary although #'s 10,12,15,17 are quite good and #18 is extraordinary), the Inward Nine usually plays harder due to the prevailing wind).

#16 at Fishers Island could have been the equal of #6 at National given the similar wind conditions and the near-identical vertical drop from tee to green.  Perhaps Raynor didn't want to annoy his mentor (and patron?), Macdonald, by "one-up'ing" him on any hole at NGLA.  Or, perhaps, one of the major domo's of the FI project though the Short Hole at National was too difficult.  We'll never know and, given Fishers' fabulous setting and great architecture, it doesn't really matter.

[Kevin Pallier]

#4 at Shinnecock almost always plays into the prevailing wind so, at least for a person of my meager talents, a "bump and run", or any low, running approach, isn't usually the shot.  You must have played SHGC (and walked NGLA) on an unusually calm day.

Chipoat

I'm used to playing on a seaside course so play plenty of chip'n'runs with or into the breeze. The ground was firm in front of #4 and I used that shot another in the group took an aerial approach.

#11 at SHGC is, IMHO, the single best par 3 ever built entirely by man (i.e. no water hazard like #16 at Cypress).  Also, it usually plays downwind, which only makes it tougher.  For the life of me,  I don't understand why that hole hasn't been copied by others.

It's a great hole and I agree it should be copied moreso.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Chipoat,

Agree on all points.

The 16th green at FI is entirely different from the 6th at NGLA.

That didn't happen by accident.

I have to suspect that the powers in charge didn't want FI to be a NGLA North

[Jim Thornton]

Pat-

While I agree that the 16th green at FI doesn't have nearly the same scary internal contours as the 6th at NGLA, it still has plenty of teeth.  The day I played it this summer, the hole played down wind (prevailing wind) and the pin was cut on the back right of the green. 3 of the 4 players in my group (including me) hit it over the green and the 4th player was short right of the green.  The 3 of us who were over the green all pitched the ball on the green, only to watch it run off the green down into the right hand bunker.  The only person who managed to make bogey was the guy who was short of the green on his tee shot.  The 3 of us who hit it over the green all made 5.

By the way, 2 of the 3 of us who hit it over the green and proceeded to make 5 were single digit handicaps (the exception being me).

Jim

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