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Tiger_Bernhardt

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Belek, Turkey Tell me more
« on: November 15, 2009, 11:54:17 PM »
I just googled it and there are what appear to be 10 plus courses aong with number of big resorts. What is their market and why there?

Steve Okula

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Re: Belek, Turkey Tell me more
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2009, 06:30:59 AM »
The hub of the Turkish Mediterranean tourist industry is the medium sized city of Antalya, with a population of about 250,000 people. It has long been a busy destination for German tourists, mainly for the nearby beaches, but also there is a quaint section of the old port, and various Roman ruins scattered around.

In the 1980’s, in order to encourage tourism, the government provided enticements and subsidies for several Turkish businessmen to develop hotels along the beaches about 20 km. to the west of the city, in the area of Belek. These were designed to be “all-inclusive”, and catered to budget/package holidays. Tour operators organize charter planes to bring groups down, they have charter buses to the hotels, where they may stay the entire time, never leaving the premises, until it’s time to get back on the bus for the airport.  Indeed, the hotel operators used to actually discourage people from ever leaving, wanting a captive clientele.

The Turks turned to golf because the weather in Belek is not agreeable for beachgoers from about October-April, and they needed some kind of draw to fill rooms the winter months. Also, somewhere along the line they realized they were missing out on the more up-scale tourism market; the so called “white glove” tourist who had a bit more disposable income.

At some point, somebody noticed that there was loads of undeveloped government property near the beach that was suitable for golf development. I believe that English architect Howard Swan was first hired to come down and designate about 10 or 12 sites of a size and terrain for golf courses. The government then let out the sites on 99 year leases to developers. The main investors are naturally the hoteliers. The land is all leased from the government, so there can be no title on the property, hence there is no golf course frontage real estate development.

The first course in the region, National Golf Club, was designed by David Feherty, and built from 1993-95. It was followed by the Tat Beach (27 holes, can’t remember the architect, Rock Roquemore?), then Gloria, (Michel Gayon of France, et al. with 45 holes), then Antalya Golf Club (36 holes, European Golf Design & David Jones) and numerous others followed, with top tier architects like Faldo, Thomson, Thomas, another EGD with Colin Montgomery (I haven’t seen that one yet, it wasn’t open last time I was there), and Perry Dye. Today, there must be over a dozen courses, I can’t keep track.

Many more hotels have sprung up, too. When I was there in ’94-’95, there were 5 hotels in Belek, today there must be ten times that number. They are becoming ever more sophisticated and up-scale. The Antalya Golf Club now boasts the Dome Kempinski on site, for example.

The Antalya airport is about a twenty minute drive, it is all new in the past ten years. The airport road has been widened and divided, making it much safer. I was witness to several horrific accidents involving fatalities during my time there, and indeed, the Turkish drivers were a contributing factor to my decision to leave when I did.

With the emergence of more golf courses, the investors cooperatively began marketing Belek as a golf destination in the U.K., Scandinavia, and other northern European countries. This has broadened their clientele considerably form the predominant Germans in the old days. Russians are a presence, as well, in the hotels if not so much on the golf courses. I think that today you could have a two week golfing holiday and play a different course each day.

They still sell most of their golf through European tour operators in various package deals. In Turkey, everything is negotiable. Don’t believe the 90-120 euro green fees in the Peugeot Golf Guide, most green fees, even in season, are sold in the 50-75 euro range. Off season you might get half that. If you’re not on a package, call one of the hotels and ask what they could arrange for you.

I believe now that the government sites are all leased, if not built on. There are a couple of sites in the hands of private owners that may eventually be turned over to golf.

The area has been hurt by the recession. When I was there in May, the chatter I was hearing was that bookings were off about 20%. So far, this hasn’t put anybody out of business, but it has put a stop to anybody starting new development.
The small wheel turns by the fire and rod,
the big wheel turns by the grace of God.

Brandon Johnson

Re: Belek, Turkey Tell me more
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2009, 09:36:31 AM »
I was on vacation in Antalya in 2003? (Before the Dollar started really sucking wind to the Euro) My wife is German and we met her family at one of the hotels there. I was the ONLY American. It was a good week. I played the Tat Beach (Club) with two guys from Denmark and Antalya Golf Club with a nice German couple. I preferred the Tat Beach Club as the site had more character. (Plus I won my match against the Danish Dentist I was pared with) I remember some Sandy soils and dune areas to the sides in a small stretch although that was not the overall character of the golf course. Antalya Golf Club was solid design work, in good shape and fun to play as well. The ancient ruins in the area, in my opinion, were just as impressive many in Italy. Maybe even more so because you don’t expect the charm.

Anyway, the entire trip was certainly a fun and interesting experience. We got to eat the best Baklava of our lives, played some golf in an interesting area and made a few memories. :)

Scott Warren

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Re: Belek, Turkey Tell me more
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2010, 10:05:33 AM »
I was just tooling around looking at golf courses on GoogleMaps, and came across this stretch of coast near belek.

All I can say is wow! 9 (15km) miles from end to end!


Adam Lawrence

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Re: Belek, Turkey Tell me more
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2010, 10:27:57 AM »
It's all beautiful sandy, piney property too. The standard of courses is reasonable, some are really quite nice (GCAer Philip Spogard did the Carya course while working for Thomson, Perrett and Lobb, and I liked it a lot). But there is a degree of saminess there, and the lack of any kind of town centre means you just have hotels on resorts. Someone should build a marina and a village centre around it; that would really improve the destination.

Perry Dye's Lykia Links course, a few miles away from the main Belek strip, is the one course that really stands out from the others. But it is... well, a little bit mental. Utterly gorgeous piece of land though, perfect natural sand dunes right next to a beach on which turtles nest.
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Belek, Turkey Tell me more
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2010, 10:45:56 AM »
Adam,

It was in searching for an aerial of Lykia that I noticed all these others.

Now, to talk my missus out of Sardinia for our summer holiday and into Antalya!

Ulrich Mayring

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Belek, Turkey Tell me more
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2010, 07:04:58 PM »
I don't think that Belek in 2010 is a good destination for the discerning golfer anymore.

It's geared towards everyone and his brother, who have never seen a great course in their lives. Completely artificial and commercial place, like the Costa del Sol. And you'll fight for decent tee times - except of course in the summer, when it is way too hot there.

I don't know much about golf in Sardinia, but it's a dream to play in Italy generally. Pevero, a 1972 RTJ course, looks interesting though.

Ulrich
« Last Edit: February 15, 2010, 07:10:56 PM by Ulrich Mayring »
Golf Course Exposé (300+ courses reviewed), Golf CV (how I keep track of 'em)

Philip Spogard

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Re: Belek, Turkey Tell me more
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2010, 05:57:35 AM »
Adam,
I agree - the biggest problem is the lack of a central hub/town/marina due to the fact that all the hotels are 'all-inclusive'. It creates a different type of destination as you more or less have to stay at the hotel or be at the golf club. There is not a whole lot to see there besides golfing and relaxing. Some people do not like this (i tend to be one of them). Many ohers do as it makes things simpler, more efficient and creates more time for relaxation.

The area works well though as an overall destination and there is now also a good diversity in the golf courses. I believe the model has been very successful and it is my understanding that all the courses are doing well. Carya is sold out more or less till November I heard the other week.

I think most people will find it a very good destination to go to - but maybe not a destination to return to year after year.

Philip Spogard

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Re: Belek, Turkey Tell me more
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2010, 06:04:17 AM »
Steve,
Belek as a golfing destination is now fully developed. All zoned and designated golfing areas have been fully developed and as far as I am aware no permissions will be given to build new courses here. Maybe in Antalya (20 mins away) - but not in Belek. I think more will happen in areas like Bodrum, Dalaman and Ankara.

I heard they might even consider creating a 'new Belek' in another part of Turkey based on the success of Belek.

I think there are a total of 16 courses in Turkey - with 12 of them in Belek!

Steve Okula

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Belek, Turkey Tell me more
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2010, 10:37:38 AM »
Philip,

Two years ago I was shown a large site somewhere east of the river that runs along the Tat Beach course. It is in private hands and could conceivably be developed for golf, or so I'm told. There is room there for two 18's. Maybe that's outside Belek proper, but it's frickin' close.

Since then ,the economy has slowed and I'm sure the developers plans have been put on hold.

I'd be very surprised to learn that any Belek golf course was booked solid until November. Nobody has ever done any business in the summer when it's 40° C out there. Most places struggle with 20 or 30 rounds a day.

The small wheel turns by the fire and rod,
the big wheel turns by the grace of God.

Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Belek, Turkey Tell me more
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2010, 04:00:29 PM »
Philip

I don't agree that there's nothing much to do in Belek other than golf and beach. The classical remains around there are fantastic - the theatre at Aspendos is mindblowing. But they aren't promoted, and the all-inclusive angle you refer to deters golfers from leaving the resort and doing other stuff.

I know there is a school of thought that says golfers on holiday want to play golf and that's it, but IMO the best destinations offer a choice of golf, lifestyle and culture. Belek is selling itself as a pretty mass-market destination, and with its other attractions I think it could have been very different.
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Ulrich Mayring

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Belek, Turkey Tell me more
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2010, 06:53:19 PM »
I actually think it's a good thing they don't promote it. Aspendos couldn't handle it if everyone, who is staying at Belek, were to come.

Ulrich
Golf Course Exposé (300+ courses reviewed), Golf CV (how I keep track of 'em)

Philip Spogard

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Belek, Turkey Tell me more
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2010, 03:59:25 AM »
Steve,
I assume - from what I heard - that the sold out is referring to their peak periods. You are right - summer is just too warm for golf. I would be very surprised if you saw more courses being build in Belek in the (nearer) future. All of the land as far as I am aware - including the hotels - are leased on a 49 year lease from the state. That is why you don't see many of the holiday homes along the fairways as you do in e.g. Spain or Portugal. Too difficult to sell on a lease.

Adam,
You are right - there are some great things to discover if you go off the beaten track. It is still my impression that these sights are not that easy to get too as a tourist staying at a resort. They really do all they can to keep you beyond the hotel gates  :) 

Brian Phillips

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Re: Belek, Turkey Tell me more
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2010, 08:18:00 AM »
Philip,

You are WAY to humble.  Please post some of your wonderful photos of the course YOU designed in Belek.  You have not mentioned it once on this thread!

Brian
Bunkers, if they be good bunkers, and bunkers of strong character, refuse to be disregarded, and insist on asserting themselves; they do not mind being avoided, but they decline to be ignored - John Low Concerning Golf

Philip Spogard

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Belek, Turkey Tell me more
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2010, 09:30:43 AM »
Brian,

I was fortunate to contribute to and to be significantly involved with the design and construction monitoring of the Thomson Perrett & Lobb project Carya GC in Belek while working for TPL from 2006-2009. We had a superb team in Turkey which worked hard and extremely dedicated towards achieving some great results. As requested I have attached a few photos.

The site is sandy with 3 different areas. A flat pine plantation which is now holes 1-5, a sandy ridge with naturally spread pine trees which are now holes 6-11 and a more open area consisting of eucalyptus trees, pines and heather (holes 12-18).

Philip

Mark Chaplin

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Re: Belek, Turkey Tell me more
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2010, 09:33:07 AM »
From my golf tour operator mates Belek is doing very well from groups of golfers who are no longer prepared to pay the inflated prices asked in Spain & Portugal. Holiday golf for the average Joe isn't about 100+ euros a round.
Cave Nil Vino

Steve Okula

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Belek, Turkey Tell me more
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2010, 10:21:13 AM »

I was fortunate to contribute to and to be significantly involved with the design and construction monitoring of the Thomson Perrett & Lobb project Carya GC in Belek while working for TPL from 2006-2009. We had a superb team in Turkey which worked hard and extremely dedicated towards achieving some great results.

Carya's GCS, Oguz Baysal, started in golf under me at National Golf Club in Belek in 1994. After successful stints at other Belek courses Nobilis and Gloria Oguz is doing a tremendous job at Carya and I am proud of him.
The small wheel turns by the fire and rod,
the big wheel turns by the grace of God.

Philip Spogard

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Re: Belek, Turkey Tell me more
« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2010, 04:55:50 AM »
Carya's GCS, Oguz Baysal, started in golf under me at National Golf Club in Belek in 1994. After successful stints at other Belek courses Nobilis and Gloria Oguz is doing a tremendous job at Carya and I am proud of him.

Oguz is doing a great job. He was there through most of the construction phase as well. I have spend hours and hours with him walking through the site discussing slopes, grasses and heather!

Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Belek, Turkey Tell me more
« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2010, 11:47:03 AM »
Ironically, only a few days after this thread, I just picked up a story about a new development being announced in Belek. I haven't yet clarified the exact site - I wonder if it's the one Steve referenced above - but it's interesting to see that there will be homes to buy on freehold title.

Full story at http://www.golfcoursearchitecture.net/Article/EGD-to-design-fourth-Belek-course/1771/Default.aspx
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Steve Okula

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Belek, Turkey Tell me more
« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2010, 01:27:34 PM »
Adam,

I don't know where the site is that the article refers to, but I'm certain it's not the one I saw, where I know the developer, and I'm sure he wouldn't sign with EGD, at least not without me hearing about it. 

It does go to show that not all the possible golf sites in Belek have been exhausted. The government leased sites, yes, but there is private land that might still be developed.
The small wheel turns by the fire and rod,
the big wheel turns by the grace of God.