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Mike Hendren

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The "Mackenzie Tongue"
« on: December 29, 2009, 02:32:20 PM »
Tyler Kearns pointed out the "Mackenzie tongue" front left of the first green at Pine Valley shown in one of the historic photographs posted on that thread.  This feature has always puzzled me.  While they remain prominent at Pasatiempo, they disappeared relatively quickly at Augusta National where they were quite pronounced, notably at the 4th, 6th, 7th and 9th (a little odd that they didn't appear on the second nine).

What was their purpose?  They do not appear pinnable.  I assume they were there to accomodate the ground game of the high handicapper who had no choice but to tack around the hazards - or embankment in the case of the original bunkerless 7th green at Augusta.

Thoughts?

Mike
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Pete Lavallee

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Re: The "Mackenzie Tongue"
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2009, 03:46:22 PM »
Bogey,

Surely the back tounge on #6 and the two back tounges on #13 at Pasatiempo were not for run ups; I suspect they were for "Sunday Pins". Granted the tounge on the front of #5 doesn't even appear pinnable. Perhaps he placed them so pundits in the 21st Century would have fodder for disscussion.  ;)

All the best in the New Year!
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Joe Hancock

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Re: The "Mackenzie Tongue"
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2009, 03:52:48 PM »
Pete,

I like your spelling of "tounge"(it's very "International"):

http://www.snopes.com/humor/misxlate/tounge.asp

 ;D
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Tony_Muldoon

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Re: The "Mackenzie Tongue"
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2009, 04:56:49 PM »
Last week it was his nose. I say let's lay off the poor guy, its Christmas.


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David Stamm

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Re: The "Mackenzie Tongue"
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2009, 05:07:27 PM »
Quote from: Tony_Muldoon on December 29, 2009, 04:56:49 PM
Last week it was his nose. I say let's lay off the poor guy, its Christmas.





Tony, people can't help but try and knock the king of the mountain off his perch. ;)
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Tim Gavrich

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Re: The "Mackenzie Tongue"
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2009, 05:49:17 PM »
Is is in the nature of a Mackenzie tongue to be too narrow to accommodate a hole location?  If not, then such a feature is not native to his courses.  The "Dean of New England golf courses," Geoffrey Cornish, included many little fingers and tongues on his original greens (sadly decades of laziness and frugality have made ovals out of many Cornish greens, to their great detriment).  RTJ's Tanglewood Park also has many such features.  Same with Dick Wilson's courses such as Callaway Gardens and the Blue Monster.
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BCrosby

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Re: The "Mackenzie Tongue"
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2009, 06:04:59 PM »
Quote from: Michael_Hendren on December 29, 2009, 02:32:20 PM

This feature has always puzzled me.  While they remain prominent at Pasatiempo, they disappeared relatively quickly at Augusta National where they were quite pronounced, notably at the 4th, 6th, 7th and 9th (a little odd that they didn't appear on the second nine).


Bogey - Not sure how we are defining "tongue", but you can interpret the 12th and the original 16th greens as each being one long tongue. Both are/were very shallow. The 18th also orignally had a tongue down the left front of the green.

Bob
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Neil_Crafter

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Re: The "Mackenzie Tongue"
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2009, 06:12:00 PM »
A couple of Mac's green plans for Titirangi in New Zealand from early 1927. Tongues in evidence......



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Adam Clayman

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Re: The "Mackenzie Tongue"
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2009, 10:37:18 AM »
Isn't that last sketch Rees' from Bethpage?
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Mike Hendren

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Re: The "Mackenzie Tongue"
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2009, 11:08:16 AM »
Quote from: BCrosby on December 29, 2009, 06:04:59 PM
Quote from: Michael_Hendren on December 29, 2009, 02:32:20 PM

This feature has always puzzled me.  While they remain prominent at Pasatiempo, they disappeared relatively quickly at Augusta National where they were quite pronounced, notably at the 4th, 6th, 7th and 9th (a little odd that they didn't appear on the second nine).


Bogey - Not sure how we are defining "tongue", but you can interpret the 12th and the original 16th greens as each being one long tongue. Both are/were very shallow. The 18th also orignally had a tongue down the left front of the green.

Bob

Bob, the tongue's I'm referring to are generally protrusions rather than extensions of the core green that are intended to be pinnable as were the 12th and 16th at Augusta.  Even the front portion of the 18th green was much wider and appeared to a lower extension of the putting surface.

Mike
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Mike Hendren

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Re: The "Mackenzie Tongue"
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2009, 11:11:39 AM »
Quote from: Pete Lavallee on December 29, 2009, 03:46:22 PM
Bogey,

Surely the back tounge on #6 and the two back tounges on #13 at Pasatiempo were not for run ups; I suspect they were for "Sunday Pins". Granted the tounge on the front of #5 doesn't even appear pinnable. Perhaps he placed them so pundits in the 21st Century would have fodder for disscussion.  ;)

All the best in the New Year!

Pete, Happy New Year to you as well.  Good comment about the rear tongues at Pasatiempo - the back right on the par five 6th was the one that I remembered.  Interestingly, Devlin/Von Hagge have a very similar feature at the rear of their 18th green at Nashville Golf & Athletic Club just down the street from me.  What make it even more diabolical is that there's sand on one side and water on the other.


Mike
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