Pine Valley and the pimple

[Joe Bausch]

It's a new year Terry. 

[Joel_Stewart]

It's not as large as the article indicates and for somereason I thought it was more in the middle.  It appears to be in the back.

With todays green speeds, I think it would be very difficult for most golfers. 

[Patrick_Mucci]

Joe,

Here's the photo.



The pimple would certainly be manageable with todays green speeds.

It's primary purpose was not for putting but to place a premium on the approach.
I"ve always advocated for it's return, either in its original form or intended form.
It would make a rather benign approach to a punchbowl like green so much more demanding, with the primary objective of being on the same side of the pimple/spine that the hole is cut.

Have you noticed how much higher the 18th fairway versus the railroad tracks to the left.

Didn't some of the Merionettes declare that the RR tracks were 15-18 feet ABOVE the golf course from the 18th green to the 17th tee ?

Didn't another declare the tracks were 40 feet above the lower 18th fairway ?

The above photo seems to indicate otherwise.

[John_Cullum]

It's a new year Terry. 

Jay Flemma has some serious competition

[Sean Leary]

Joe,

Here's the photo.



The pimple would certainly be manageable with todays green speeds.

It's primary purpose was not for putting but to place a premium on the approach.
I"ve always advocated for it's return, either in its original form or intended form.
It would make a rather benign approach to a punchbowl like green so much more demanding, with the primary objective of being on the same side of the pimple/spine that the hole is cut.

Have you noticed how much higher the 18th fairway versus the railroad tracks to the left.

Didn't some of the Merionettes declare that the RR tracks were 15-18 feet ABOVE the golf course from the 18th green to the 17th tee ?

Didn't another declare the tracks were 40 feet above the lower 18th fairway ?

The above photo seems to indicate otherwise.

Pat,

I can't see the railroad tracks. If they are near the water I agree with you. If they are up near the treeline then I think that it is higher than the fairway.

[Joe Bausch]

Oh no, my 'pimple thread' is literally and figuratively about to become...



 

[Rick Sides]

Crump also use to bet people to try to hold the ball up on the pimple for dinner.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Joe,

I won't let it happen, if Sean can't figure out where the RR tracks are, his evaluation wouldn't be very credible anyway.

In any event, since the stimp wasn't stimped yet, would you say the greens probably ran at 6 maybe 8 ?
Wouldn't those speeds be supported by having the ball remain on the top of the pimple ?

The green also appears to have more of a punchbowl nature, especially to the left in the photo.

I wonder if the green was reconfigured when the pimple was removed.

Are there any other photos of the 18th green with the pimple ?

Photo's in 1928/29 after the pimple was removed ?

[JESII]

The tracks are below the 18th fairway.


I'm all for interesting and unique features on greens I just can't imagine this would have a positive impact on enjoyability and interest. The pimple on the 8th green at Hidden Creek is about the only feature there I'd change.

[Patrick_Mucci]

The tracks are below the 18th fairway.

I'm all for interesting and unique features on greens I just can't imagine this would have a positive impact on enjoyability and interest.

Then work on your imagination or get more sleep.
You can't view that pimple in the context of today's green speeds.
It's strategically vital, especially on a forgiving punchbowl green.


The pimple on the 8th green at Hidden Creek is about the only feature there I'd change.
YIKES
Jim, that's one of the most interesting and strategic features you can find on a hole, especially a drivable par 4.
It places a premium on driving accuracy, accuracy with the approach/recovery and putting.

I'd tell you to edit and erase that comment as it will forever haunt you, but, since I've quoted you, it's indelibly etched in the golfing, architectural hall of shame.

[JESII]

How is it strategic when the green is blind from the tee? Can any pin on the green be seen? I suspect the far right may be but am curious to hear from you or others that have played there much more than me.

[Jim Briggs]

How is it strategic when the green is blind from the tee? Can any pin on the green be seen? I suspect the far right may be but am curious to hear from you or others that have played there much more than me.

Jim,

From the tee you can typically figure out where the pin is.  For a left of the pimple placement you will typically see the top of the flag from the tee, and for a right of pimple placement the same.  When you cant see the flag from the tee, its generally because it is a a center location (and the mounding of the centerline bunker is blocking visibility of flag) and if you know pin locations for the day (front/center/back), you will be able to figure out if it is in front of the pimple or behind.

I'm a short hitter, so the green is generally not drivable for me, but the pimple (and the pin location relative to it) absolutely influences where I am trying to drive my ball.  Left pin location I want to be left of the centerline bunker on my approach, right pin location, right of the centerline bunker, which will make my approach a bit easier.

I have a 14 year old who can drive the green from the members tee, and he slowly coming to realize that its not about getting it down there, its about getting it down there in the right general vicinity relative to the pimple.  Been fun to watch the beginning of that transformation with him.

Now back to our regularly scheduled Pine Valley programming....

[JESII]

Jim,

You should know that well thought out, reasoned and sensible answers to a question are completely uncalled for. Do you know how to use the bright green ink?


Thanks for the explanation it makes sense. I've played there a few times and most recently decided my best bet was to aim towards where I figured the left edge of the green would be and hope for the best.

[Jim Briggs]

Jim - I'm typically good at the well thought out and reasoned on the golf course...its the execution once my swing starts that keeps me as the third best golfer in my house...

[JESII]

No shame in that.

Hidden Creek is a great place.

[Mark McKeever]

Very cool find Joe!  Thanks for posting!

Was this part of your recent Philly Library finds??

Mark

[Joe Bausch]

Very cool find Joe!  Thanks for posting!

Was this part of your recent Philly Library finds??

Mark

Yes, it was.

And here is the related article to the poem where author Ted Hoyt gives more details about the pimple: