Is there a common thread when underwhelmed by greatness?

[mike_malone]

    As I listed my 25 favorite courses I knew full well that Winged Foot West , Bethpage Black , Friar's Head , and Hidden Creek would not be on that list. Some were probably shocked I included Merion.

   I'm not sure there is a common thread as to why I was underwhelmed by these courses and not by NGLA, TOC, Pennard, Rye, or N.Berwick  which were other courses I went to with high expectations.

     I do know that some of it relates to the hype I heard before playing these courses and the letdown that came when I was out there playing them.

   The most obvious answer would be my preference for quirk, I guess.


        What let you down about the architecture of courses you went to with high expectations?

[Joe Hancock]

Mike,

I know I was supposed to be inspired when I played Quaker Ridge, yet I felt it was not what I had hoped. Why, I'm not yet sure. There are some wonderful holes, to be sure. Back to back par 3's is nice quirk in the routing.

Joe

[JESII]

Pretty flat greens at Pebble Beach...

[mike_malone]

 Joe,

   If you can't come up with an answer, even a stupid one, there is little hope for this attempt at a topic on golf course architecture

[mike_malone]

 Jim,

  Would that be flat greens where the terrain told you to expect more ?

[JMEvensky]

Mike,

I know I was supposed to be inspired when I played Quaker Ridge, yet I felt it was not what I had hoped. Why, I'm not yet sure. There are some wonderful holes, to be sure. Back to back par 3's is nice quirk in the routing.

Joe

Same here.I had played WFW the day before.

I've always wondered what opinion I'd have if I'd played QR first.

I also realize how lucky/stupid I am that I can try to pick nits about QR.

[JESII]

Jim,

  Would that be flat greens where the terrain told you to expect more ?

Nope...the world ranking did...

[mike_malone]

 Jim's response gets me thinking about something I thought while playing WFW. Shouldn't a great course have interest from tee to green. I thought the tee shots were well below great. So, when I got to the greens I was dealing with disappointment.

[JESII]

How were you dealing with your disappointment? Therapy? Drugs?


The thing that makes Winged Foot's tee shots at least adequate is that the greens are so great. Pebble didn't have that, although the size does increase the focus.

[Bill_McBride]

Mayday, I just hope to be as jaded as you are someday, when courses like Winged Foot and Friars Head just sorta don't get it for me.  

Your devoted fan,

Bill McBride

[Jim_Kennedy]

Mayday, I just hope to be as jaded as you are someday, when courses like Winged Foot and Friars Head just sorta don't get it for me.   

Your devoted fan,

Bill McBride

Thank you

[Bill_McBride]

Mayday, I just hope to be as jaded as you are someday, when courses like Winged Foot and Friars Head just sorta don't get it for me.   

Your devoted fan,

Bill McBride

Thank you

You are jaded as well, Mr Kennedy?  You Eastern guys have it all......

[Jim_Kennedy]

Bill,
You misunderstood me, I was agreeing with you. I might be more amazed than you though,  I cannot understand how anyone could be 'underwhelmed by greatness'.

[Ian Andrew]

You go to see these courses with elevated expectations.

1. it’s pretty hard for them to meet those expectations when some of the greatness is based upon subtleties that need repeat play. I enjoyed Pebble much more the third time than the previous two. That’s always been my take on Pinehurst, which many people have expressed disappointment, but I give high marks for the architecture lessons it teaches. I always thought that was an “architect’s” course.

2. We all have certain aspects of architecture that appeal specifically to us. If the course delivers “our” list of favourite aspects, we will revel in its charms. I like quirk, but don’t care for excessive difficulty. So I’ll fall all over myself for a Berwick or Prestwick when others see major flaws. But a course like Oakland Hills to me is a bore, whereas others really care for the complexity of the challenge it presents.

Tom Paul’s greatest observation – before he went nuts – was his great big world theory.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Ian,
1. Agreed, and I'd only add that fooling oneself with expectations that can only be second-hand at best is no reason to take it out on the course. If anything 'You' should be underwhelmed by your own gullibility.   

2. You're talking preferences, not quality.

3. 38,000 posts later and four words to remember. 

[Rory Connaughton]

I agree that unrealistic expectations are probably to blame first and foremost.
Secondly, some truly great courses require multiple plays to fully appreciate.
I agree with Ian on Pinehurst.  Its the one great course for which I continuously hear, "what's the big deal".
I think the course is fantastic (though the fairways have become way too narrow) and enjoy it more every time I play it.

[mike_malone]

 Jim Kennedy,

   Have you never been underwhelmed by greatness?

[Kyle Harris]

I was fairly underwhelmed with Merion East until about the 6th green.

[Rob Rigg]

There are a few variables that can make it hard for you to appreciate the greatness, especially if you only have one play.

- Miserable Weather
- Insane Wind
- Horrible Caddie
- Miserable Round

I know guys who have walked off all of the courses at Bandon Dunes and asked a) what the fuss is about and b) why the hell does anyone come here - because of any of the above.

I also know a member of the site who has been underwhelmed at such courses as Cypress Point and Pacific Dunes. But I'll let him chime in and explain if he would like to.

[mike_malone]

 Kyle,

   That's interesting because that's about where I start to wonder about Merion. It isn't until 14 that I get back to a feeling of greatness.

[Kyle Harris]

Kyle,

   That's interesting because that's about where I start to wonder about Merion. It isn't until 14 that I get back to a feeling of greatness.

Mike,

For me, the greatness of the first set of holes at Merion are only really cemented by the trickiness of the short holes in the middle of the stretch. 3-4-5 are going to beat the golfer senseless, and then 7-8-9-10-11 is death by papercuts. Then you cross the road and the course really turns on.

However, until I reached 6 and had not seen the true subtlety and devlishness of that middle stretch I was feeling as though I was playing just another long, good to great golf course.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Mike,
I thought long and hard about your last question and I can honestly say that I've never been underwhelmed by greatness, unless I created some prior fiction of my own making or let myself put too much stock in second hand sources, like reviews or the words of friends. I have dislikes, but that's personal.

....and that's a Ripley's moment.  

[Matt_Ward]

Mike:

I just have to wonder if the "underwhelmed" situation is geared to how a course fits one's eyes or how it responds to the game you have ?

I know plenty of people who feel "underwhelmed" by WF/W because they are so overwhelmed.

[Jaeger Kovich]

Isn't this the same thing that most people talk about after they play the Old Course for the first time?... The what the hell is all the fuss about, you call that a golf course, feeling? ... But then you go back to try to figure out what everyone is talking about, and you continue to study it, and the more you think about it, the better it gets.

Perhaps the problem with the WF's and Pinehurst's are that they are not "beautiful" courses. Aside from the clubhouse at WF, there is really nothing aesthetically about either, so a bad day with the irons and/or on the greens at either of these courses and I could see how someone might come away "underwhelmed".

[Bill_McBride]

Bill,
You misunderstood me, I was agreeing with you. I might be more amazed than you though,  I cannot understand how anyone could be 'underwhelmed by greatness'.

Got it.

And Mayday is such a nice guy in person.