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Anthony Gray

Re: Latitude 17.50 N Longitude 62.50W
« Reply #100 on: December 19, 2009, 08:36:45 AM »


Bob_Huntley
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Posts: 4949



    Re: Starting Thursday, 11/19 Get to Know John Kavanaugh
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2009, 11:24:16 AM » Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anthony,

Have you discussed this with Ran? If not, I suggest you do so.

Bob
 
   

Mike_Young

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Re: Latitude 17.50 N Longitude 62.50W
« Reply #101 on: December 19, 2009, 08:42:12 AM »
Jay,
I just read your updates re TW....

QUESTION?

Is anyone so ignorant as to need words when they see a phto of the doctor Galea?  The photo sums it all up...you don't have TW network and money and go to Canada to find some dude....and he is a dude..... ;)

"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Brent Hutto

Re: Latitude 17.50 N Longitude 62.50W
« Reply #102 on: December 19, 2009, 08:59:11 AM »
Back in the 80's didn't they call guys like this "Dr. Feelgood"?



Mike Young,

what style of loafer do you think the good Doctor wears?

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Latitude 17.50 N Longitude 62.50W
« Reply #103 on: December 19, 2009, 09:35:25 AM »
Brent,
I guarantee it is an extremely thin sole Italian model.....would last a fat guy 4 hours on concrete ;D
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Brent Hutto

Re: Latitude 17.50 N Longitude 62.50W
« Reply #104 on: December 19, 2009, 09:37:49 AM »
Yeah and it would destroy this fat boy's high arches even sooner than that. Of course I'm sure Dr. G. has a little something for that, too. "Knee, foot, head...man this stuff's good for whatever you got".

RJ_Daley

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Re: Latitude 17.50 N Longitude 62.50W
« Reply #105 on: December 19, 2009, 09:55:44 AM »
Gents, if law enforcement jumped to as many conclusions as everyone seems to be doing about TW going further than blood spinning, or other tour players using HGH because this playboy MD has a trade in this stuff, we'd all be under indictment. 

It is bad enough that there are innocent people who are sitting in jail because of zealous prosections, and investigators and prosecutors listening to public pressure or sensationalism rather than pursuing hard facts.  All this speculation is simply destructive to the very sport and players that you otherwise want to follow as fans.  Sure, demand accountability, and the press should ask Finchem the tough questions.  But, I think this whole feeding frenzy needs to subside and retreat to sensible and objective investigation, not the sensationalism that is surrounding all these wild allegations. 

For one thing, I'd ask what would the sense be in the suspicions of tour players taking steroids, HGH and such substances when wrongly bulked up muscle, or hightened nerves and reactions of steroids and HGH would most likely be a detriment to the caliber of tour golf where the margins of highest quality play are decimal points different in things like stroke averages and such. 

People were laughing at Finchem's comment of things being counter-intuitive.  But really.... ::)
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Latitude 17.50 N Longitude 62.50W
« Reply #106 on: December 19, 2009, 10:12:17 AM »
Gents, if law enforcement jumped to as many conclusions as everyone seems to be doing about TW going further than blood spinning, or other tour players using HGH because this playboy MD has a trade in this stuff, we'd all be under indictment. 

It is bad enough that there are innocent people who are sitting in jail because of zealous prosections, and investigators and prosecutors listening to public pressure or sensationalism rather than pursuing hard facts.  All this speculation is simply destructive to the very sport and players that you otherwise want to follow as fans.  Sure, demand accountability, and the press should ask Finchem the tough questions.  But, I think this whole feeding frenzy needs to subside and retreat to sensible and objective investigation, not the sensationalism that is surrounding all these wild allegations. 

For one thing, I'd ask what would the sense be in the suspicions of tour players taking steroids, HGH and such substances when wrongly bulked up muscle, or hightened nerves and reactions of steroids and HGH would most likely be a detriment to the caliber of tour golf where the margins of highest quality play are decimal points different in things like stroke averages and such. 

People were laughing at Finchem's comment of things being counter-intuitive.  But really.... ::)

The night the TW stuff first broke a few guys were saying we were making accusations for no reason and my comment then was...."there is much more to this".....
AND even now I still say the is much more to this entire thing than we know today.....it is sad and will get sadder.....so many guys have known what was going on and did not say (understandably) and now the lies just keep leading to more lies.....
People still can't accept the fact that John Daly is actually a better role model for your children than TW....
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Latitude 17.50 N Longitude 62.50W
« Reply #107 on: December 19, 2009, 10:26:07 AM »
RJ,

I think this is all what would be considered "water cooler talk", in as much as that our opinions on Tiger don't carry any weight in his situation. We are not judge or jury...his fate doesn't rest in our hands, so I don't see how the speculation is harmful. Even if someone in an official capacity to investigate Tiger were peering in on us, it would be quickly dismissed as speculation, wouldn't it?

Joe

p.s. It's the Eastern seaboards turn for the weather.... :)
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Jay Flemma

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Re: Latitude 17.50 N Longitude 62.50W
« Reply #108 on: December 19, 2009, 10:44:33 AM »
Mike, they do call him something like Dr. Feelgood, but I have a bad feeling about this.

I was in the senate hearing room for the Clemens hearing and I'm telling you all this feels like that did then.  If Finchem doesn't start to take a harder stance on steroids and PEDs, it will not only define his Commissionership, but be an albatross around his neck.

Borther William, I luv ya, but listen to Adso on this one.  I've made a point of studying steroids, PEDs, masking agents, and testing procedures.  I lecture on the subject to the NYS Bar Association with Cameron Myler (the lawyer who reps players who get caught), and Dr Gary Wadler, the scourge of steroid cheats everywhere.  It looks exactly the same as MLB.  The Tour regimen is woefully inadequate and has significant holes in masking agents, testing and, most importantly, punishment and transparency.

« Last Edit: December 19, 2009, 10:52:06 AM by Jay Flemma »
Mackenzie, MacRayBanks, Maxwell, Doak, Dye, Strantz. @JayGolfUSA, GNN Radio Host of Jay's Plays www.cybergolf.com/writerscorner

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Latitude 17.50 N Longitude 62.50W
« Reply #109 on: December 19, 2009, 10:50:25 AM »
Mike, they do call him something like Dr. Feelgood, but I have a bad feeling about this.

I was in the senate hearing room for the Clemens hearing and I'm telling you all this feels like that did then.  If Finchem doesn't start to take a harder stance on steroids and PEDs, it will not only define his Commissionership, but be an albatross around his neck.


Wait a minute..they let you in a senate hearing room????  holy shit....next thing I know you will be on Borat..... ;D
Finchem has waited too long....this thing has gained steam and ain't no rocks left to hide under....in all seriousness I hate it for golf....but those that knew on tour and elsewhere enabled it....they were all scared of how they would be treated if they went against the machine....and now what..... ???
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Jay Flemma

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Latitude 17.50 N Longitude 62.50W
« Reply #110 on: December 19, 2009, 10:56:39 AM »
Look top left.  I'll try to find a larger one, but it was front page NYTimes and many other papers.



here's the article I wrote about it:

http://jayflemma.thegolfspace.com/?p=833

For you music lovers, I got a Pink Floyd reference in there.
Mackenzie, MacRayBanks, Maxwell, Doak, Dye, Strantz. @JayGolfUSA, GNN Radio Host of Jay's Plays www.cybergolf.com/writerscorner

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Latitude 17.50 N Longitude 62.50W
« Reply #111 on: December 19, 2009, 11:05:22 AM »
Look top left.  I'll try to find a larger one, but it was front page NYTimes and many other papers.



here's the article I wrote about it:

http://jayflemma.thegolfspace.com/?p=833

For you music lovers, I got a Pink Floyd reference in there.

Jay,
I see you back there...
That Mr Scmetler..front and center..has some really nice hair... ;D
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Jay Flemma

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Latitude 17.50 N Longitude 62.50W
« Reply #112 on: December 19, 2009, 11:06:58 AM »
Look top left.  I'll try to find a larger one, but it was front page NYTimes and many other papers.



here's the article I wrote about it:

http://jayflemma.thegolfspace.com/?p=833

For you music lovers, I got a Pink Floyd reference in there.

Jay,
I see you back there...
That Mr Scmetler..front and center..has some really nice hair... ;D

He was hysterical!  He said being stuck between those two was like the worst seat on an airplane ever:)
Mackenzie, MacRayBanks, Maxwell, Doak, Dye, Strantz. @JayGolfUSA, GNN Radio Host of Jay's Plays www.cybergolf.com/writerscorner

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Latitude 17.50 N Longitude 62.50W
« Reply #113 on: December 19, 2009, 02:49:11 PM »
I remember a few years back when a pal of mine who had represented his country at athletics told me the story about one of the top athletes getting caught for taking performance enhancing drugs. The problem for the authorities was that this athlete was one of three athletes who were all over the marketing literature/billboards etc for an upcoming major championship. Clearly the fallout would be colossal if it became known that one of the athletes promoting th egames was a cheat.

According to my pal, a deal was done where the athlete didn't get busted on the basis that they came no where in their event which was what happened. You could argue that it was all a coincidence and that the athlete had an off day but I'm assured that the story was going round the other athletes even before the event. And this was someone who was considered a red hot favourite. Now I suspect no-one could prove that story unless the athlete in question confessed however ever since I heard that story its made me look at things in a different light. The guys that run these organisations be it in athletics, golf or where ever, are marketing men who are there to make as much money for the machine as possible, there job isn't to up hold the values of the game or root out any bad apples. Especially if that bad apple is the poster boy for the sport.

Now as someone rightly said, Tiger hasn't been convicted yet, but if he is, I would bet serious money that a lot of people knew what was going on and that includes at the PGA.

Niall

Bob Jenkins

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Re: Latitude 17.50 N Longitude 62.50W
« Reply #114 on: December 19, 2009, 07:20:41 PM »

Anthony,

It is time to back off. In the past, you have given us some laughs and that was great but your side of the exchange with Bob Huntley is way off base and is most upsetting and unnecessary, I am sure to Bob but also to many of us. Please just take a break. Thank you.

Bob Jenkins

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Latitude 17.50 N Longitude 62.50W
« Reply #115 on: December 19, 2009, 08:23:18 PM »
What Bob said.

Anthony, in the past I would have agreed with Mike Young that "Anthony means no harm", but despite being one of your most strident defenders here and elsewhere, I think this thread may well have been you jumping the shark.

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Latitude 17.50 N Longitude 62.50W
« Reply #116 on: December 20, 2009, 03:21:04 AM »
Anthony,

One more comment on self-immolation from you is not wanted. You got me once, never again. I advised you, on what I thought would be my last communication with you, and that was for you to get some advice on your exhibitionist behavior; it seemed as though it fell on deaf ears.

Bob

Let's see, exhibitionist behavior. What comes to mind?

Robin Williams, Steve Martin, Dean Martin, Jerry Lewis, ...

Now, admittedly Anthony may not play in their league, but the world would be a duller place if we treated all exhibitionist behavior with a shrink.

Just sayin....


Garland,

Dean Martin was a friend of mine and quite frankly was a very retiring sort of guy.

Bobl

As you can guess, I was just pulling names that I thought might be possibiliiies. I have heard several comics being profiled as the class clown seeking attention while in school, that turned out to be a good thing as they went on to big careers. Personally I cannot state for sure that any particular comic was that way. However, if my recollection serves me right, Robin Williams may have been one that way.

"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Latitude 17.50 N Longitude 62.50W
« Reply #117 on: December 20, 2009, 03:57:50 AM »

...
If he thinks you're a narcissistic douche, you are.

Beat it.

Jed

  Jed,

  I have only been on here a year so I missed all of his threads vwith the course photos. I think he should take his own advice if he is capable.

  Anthony



Anthony.

A discussion group is like a bar, or a social club, or hell, a golf club where fine gentlemen assemble.

Bob is one of the finest gentlemen I know. There is a reason he is held in such high esteem.

You don't fit in well, hence your constant cries for attention and attention whore-ing.

You're the (annoying) member at the club that was admitted because you're a legacy, but no one wants them in their group because four hours with you is hell.

Please kindly piss off.

Thanks,

Jed

Edit:  Bob's the guy at the club who, although VERY OLD and CRAPPY at the Game, even the best players in the club would GLADLY tee it up with him, and even play from his SENIOR tees.


Enphasis added.

Jed,

Is this really how you defend a gentleman?
« Last Edit: December 20, 2009, 04:02:08 AM by Garland Bayley »
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Latitude 17.50 N Longitude 62.50W
« Reply #118 on: December 20, 2009, 04:31:59 AM »
Classic humor is based on the surprise. The humorist leads you down the garden path, gets you thinking one thing, and then springs something on you. Often times, you have to think a little before, the truth behind the surprise dons on you and you can have your chuckle.

I am not claiming to be a great humorist, but I know for a fact that some of the humorous things I post (or at least what I thought were humourous) are lost by the readers that through divided interest or no interest in paying attention to what I post, did not understand the meaning behind the post. They saw it as odd, and ignored it.

Because this site divides our attention so much, this site makes it difficult for much humor to get across properly. The most obvious case in point is the "I set myself on fire" post. Those that have read fairly regularly what Anthony posts have seen [bold]way[/bold] too much of the skin on his body. Therefore, when he posts "I set myself on fire", it's surprise, moment of though, chuckle, couldn't possibly be so. Anthony knows many have seen the pictures, so he knows how to set up the surprise for the "punch line". I am sure he did not write it to make people pity him, as that perhaps was an unfortunate consequence. Anthony is not the only one that engages in shocking suprises in his posts. Tom Paul does it regularly, and a lot of it is misunderstood. I am sure if anyone were to ask him, Tom would readily tell them that he knows much of his humor goes misunderstood.

Therefore, I would suggest that if you don't understand something that appears odd, either seek out the meaning, or just ignore it and move on. Don't proceed by adopting a dismisive attitude towards the poster.

If you have gotten this far with my post, I thank you for your attention.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Melvyn Morrow

Re: Latitude 17.50 N Longitude 62.50W
« Reply #119 on: December 20, 2009, 04:39:15 AM »

Gentlemen, well if that is the right way to address one or two of you here on GCA.com.

I fear that the discussion disintegrates when we drop to base levels. Whatever your position in this matter, I fear that we need to inject a little tolerance into the proceedings, after all are we not golfers.

Bob and Anthony add a great deal to this web site in their own ways, if there is a problem between them, we must leave it to their own devices to resolve the matter (hopefully via courteous means using e-mails or IM).

We are pouring fuel on to a delicate situation creating potential trenched demarcation lines while exasperating the situation IMHO. 

I hope that without our input this matter can be fasts and quickly resolved in an amicably fashion.

Let’s not forget that Anthony rides carts, so if I can reach out to him with the hand of friendship there must be hope that this matter can be quickly resolved.

Melvyn

Anthony Gray

Re: Latitude 17.50 N Longitude 62.50W
« Reply #120 on: December 20, 2009, 10:42:59 AM »

  Gentelmen...I am backing off. I called Ran a few days ago. He does want the DG to be mostly about architrecture. So I have started no OT threads since that time and will not in the future.

  My comments on this thread should have provoked thought but insted provoked anger.


  In November I started a controverial thread "Get to Khow John Kavanaugh". Bob Huntley suggested that I should have consulted Ran first. A couple days ago Bob Huntley started a thread THIS ONE about Tiger's whereabouts. All other threads about Tiger have been delleeted and after talking to Ran the other day he does not want theses Tiger threads,so I gave Bob the same advice he gave me. The posters have had different responses to the same advice. There is a 800 pound gorilla in the room and his name is DOUBLE STANDARD.

  Jed Peters. Have we met? Where you at the KP? I agree that there are places were we all do not fit in. I have never been to a NAMBLA conferance and I don't have a Darth Vader costume.

  Some have mentioned contributions the the DG. In the past 6 months How many threads have Bob Huntley or Bill McBride started about architecture? How many have I started about architecture? How many photos have Bob or Bill posted of golf courses? They have contributed in many other ways but this is about GOLF COURSE ARCHITECTURE.

  Last week (before speeking to Ran) I started a thread about Golf and College Basketball. It got deleeted. THe thread on Golf and College Football is on its 11th page. Again be blind to the Gorilla.

  A thread about Jay Berwanger a passionate Chicago golfer who won the first Heisman Trophy in 1935 was delleeted. He golfed almost every day of his late life and with all the Chicago guys on here I thought some would have known him. I regret I did not seize the opertunity when I had it. That thread also mention that a Heisman winner was married at Peeble Beach and the 08 winner goes off at scratch. That has more to do with golf than this thread.

  In the future I will not start OT threads. When I mow the famous courses I will keep that only between my three best friends. Garlad, kalen and Bill McBride. If Bob Huntely offers me advice I will not offer him the same advice back. I have many more photos that I look foward to posting and I hope they will be a positive contribution to the site. Remember when Nixon said to the press "you won't have Richard Nixon to push around enymore"? That was kind of crazy but fuuny too.

  All the best.....Will have photos of No 8 at Chambers Bay up on Monday,

  Anthony

« Last Edit: December 20, 2009, 10:53:14 AM by Anthony Gray »

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Latitude 17.50 N Longitude 62.50W
« Reply #121 on: December 20, 2009, 12:05:20 PM »

  Gentelmen...I am backing off. I called Ran a few days ago. He does want the DG to be mostly about architrecture. So I have started no OT threads since that time and will not in the future.

  My comments on this thread should have provoked thought but insted provoked anger.


  In November I started a controverial thread "Get to Khow John Kavanaugh". Bob Huntley suggested that I should have consulted Ran first. A couple days ago Bob Huntley started a thread THIS ONE about Tiger's whereabouts. All other threads about Tiger have been delleeted and after talking to Ran the other day he does not want theses Tiger threads,so I gave Bob the same advice he gave me. The posters have had different responses to the same advice. There is a 800 pound gorilla in the room and his name is DOUBLE STANDARD.

  Jed Peters. Have we met? Where you at the KP? I agree that there are places were we all do not fit in. I have never been to a NAMBLA conferance and I don't have a Darth Vader costume.

  Some have mentioned contributions the the DG. In the past 6 months How many threads have Bob Huntley or Bill McBride started about architecture? How many have I started about architecture? How many photos have Bob or Bill posted of golf courses? They have contributed in many other ways but this is about GOLF COURSE ARCHITECTURE.

  Last week (before speeking to Ran) I started a thread about Golf and College Basketball. It got deleeted. THe thread on Golf and College Football is on its 11th page. Again be blind to the Gorilla.

  A thread about Jay Berwanger a passionate Chicago golfer who won the first Heisman Trophy in 1935 was delleeted. He golfed almost every day of his late life and with all the Chicago guys on here I thought some would have known him. I regret I did not seize the opertunity when I had it. That thread also mention that a Heisman winner was married at Peeble Beach and the 08 winner goes off at scratch. That has more to do with golf than this thread.

  In the future I will not start OT threads. When I mow the famous courses I will keep that only between my three best friends. Garlad, kalen and Bill McBride. If Bob Huntely offers me advice I will not offer him the same advice back. I have many more photos that I look foward to posting and I hope they will be a positive contribution to the site. Remember when Nixon said to the press "you won't have Richard Nixon to push around enymore"? That was kind of crazy but fuuny too.

  All the best.....Will have photos of No 8 at Chambers Bay up on Monday,

  Anthony



Anthony and Melvyn-

Quite frankly you two are the worst parts of Golf Club Atlas personified. If you two remain on the site I believe it will lead to the inevitable demise of this once great site. People like you two come on here and get your rocks off by pissing everyone off (as evidenced by Bob Huntley's comments above), and are the reason why so many of the great posters who helped build this site with their contributions have either left or stopped posting. News flash: the reason the board is filled with OT threads is that the there are few left here that either are knowledgeable enough to start a decent GCA thread, or those that are here don't feel like posting it because they know it will either a) get bumped quickly to the third page by your bullshit/show-off threads, or b) it will go over the heads of most and won't generate any reasonable discussion.

Anthony, while with over 3000 posts in a year and a half, you have contributed next to nothing to this site in terms of actual thought stimulation. I have no doubt that you are truly "harmless" in real life, which makes your comments on here more revealing than you know, nevertheless your comments and actions have helped diminish this site's average IQ and relevancy by half. You should of been kicked off of this board a long time ago.

Melvyn, everyone knows I can't stand you and I have nothing nice to say to you or about you, but you are the most predictable and boring poster here. Your constant holier-than-thou commentary and "told you so" attitude makes you a complete joke.

As long as this is allowed to go on I fear that we've already seen the best days of the GCA.com discussion board.  :-\
H.P.S.

Melvyn Morrow

Re: Latitude 17.50 N Longitude 62.50W
« Reply #122 on: December 20, 2009, 01:33:58 PM »

Pat

There is never a way forward or a way to settle anything with you, your hatred is so great that it must be eating you up from inside. No matter how many times peace is offered you still come back with this unbelievable hatred.

I feel so sorry for you, but what is perhaps more sickening is that very few on GCA.com seem to condemn you for your nastiness. That is what is wrong on this site, the weakness of the ‘sit on the fence Members’ who seem ready to condemn post which they have either not read correctly or jumped in feet first without reading the previous posts. They let you dribble out you spite with impunity, yet what have you actually added to this site since.

This is a discussion group, where we each add our thoughts and opinions. Some are liked, some are disliked, many fall by the way side and some develop much further, yet your agenda seems to be the removable of those you have decided to dislike.

I have mentioned on here that I will leave if enough ask me to leave. I am willing to leave on the basis of my topics and comments, I am not willing to leave because you and others do not agree with the right for all to share or practice the right to freedoms of speech, which by the way my ancestors won well before your country came into existence.

Discussion groups are there to voice opinions, whether you like the subject, are content with it, in agreement or not. It’s part of our fundamental rights and you with others on this site want to strip some of us of that right because you do not like what or worst still in the way YOU THINK WE ARE SAYING IT.

You have a right to you opinions whatever they maybe but to try and remove others for voicing theirs is a blood disgrace. Sitting on the fence on this one is a vote for censorship and the dismantling of our basic rights.

Get together a vote or ask Ben or Ran to remove me, I will go.

Melvyn

PS Like a TV there is an on/off button, but I expect that is just to complicated for some to understand, plus you have to make the effort to press the button.


Ulrich Mayring

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Latitude 17.50 N Longitude 62.50W
« Reply #123 on: December 20, 2009, 04:30:34 PM »
Melvyn, you're not going anywhere, thank you. And the "weakness of sit on the fence members" may in some cases be better described as a "conviction to be above pettiness" ;-)

Ulrich
Golf Course Exposé (300+ courses reviewed), Golf CV (how I keep track of 'em)

Dale Jackson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Latitude 17.50 N Longitude 62.50W
« Reply #124 on: December 20, 2009, 06:23:18 PM »
Melvyn, you're not going anywhere, thank you. And the "weakness of sit on the fence members" may in some cases be better described as a "conviction to be above pettiness" ;-)

Ulrich

I hate these type of threads, I have posted on one only once and I regret doing so.

But I cannot let Ulrich's post go without commenting.  He  is exactly right.  I, and I am sure the vast majority of others who remain quiet, are doing so to stay above the fray.  The only way these type of threads exist is that at least 2 people keep them going.  If you truly want them to stop, then DON'T POST.
I've seen an architecture, something new, that has been in my mind for years and I am glad to see a man with A.V. Macan's ability to bring it out. - Gene Sarazen

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