Catch Basins: here, there and everywhere!

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

One thing that struck me while walking around the RTJ II designed Castle Course at Bro Hof (Sweden), was the number of drainage outlets on the course. I had never before seen these "perforated man-holes" on a golf course, and wondered why a course that cost millions would need them.

I did a search of the DG on drainage and found several discussions had taken place concerning catch basins. Having read some of those topics, I still can't understand why there are so many on this course. In some places, it's like the footpath of a new housing estate, where you have a concentration of man-holes, telecomm, gas, and electricity outlets. In some of the pictures below (picture quality is not great, as it was a very dull day), these metallic caps are in the middle of level fairways, not in hollows or depressions.

The course lies on fairly flat land within a few hundred yards of Lake Mälaren. This part of Sweden doesn't get too much rain, when you compare it to somewhere like Ireland. In the Summer, it can get pretty hot here but there can be some heavy downpours as well. These fixtures do not extend the golfing season in comparison to other courses in the area. The neighbouring course at Bro-Bĺlsta has no catch basins and yet stays open even longer in the Winter than Bro Hof.

Are these ugly eyesores now an accepted fixture on modern golf courses?

Dónal.


1st Hole: Do I get relief?

Here's one at the front left of the 1st green at Bro Hof Castle Course. It lies at the bottom of a slope, and many shots that are short may come to rest on this. What is the rule governing this?


1st Hole: This one is in a small depression on the left side of the fairway. 


2nd Hole: Short of the green. Is this really necessary? Three different fixtures side by side.


13th Hole: This one lies in the middle of the fairway


14th Hole: Approaching the green.


14th Hole: Another cap of some sort.


15th Hole: No denying that this one is needed! Shabby job?


Left of the 17th green.


Short right of the 18th green: Nice Clubhouse!

[Kyle Harris]

Catch basins not only catch water, but provide venting for drains elsewhere. Without them, the drains would become quite useless when they are full as the vacuum from a lack of vent would prevent them from flowing.

[Jim Sweeney]

Don't know if it applies to this course, but some new courses engineer theie drainage to recylce as mcuh water as possible, for environmental reasons mostly- concern (often overblown) over chemicals in the run off. Often found in low lying areas or near bodiea of water.

Re: the last picture: settling of the soil over nely laid pipe may cause the drain to appear misplaced, but this is common and easily fixed.

[Derek Dirksen]

Not knowing the site and the area it maybe hard to tell why, but you said it is a flat site.  Maybe to minamalize the amount of earth work they decided to add more catch basins.  You usaully try to get atleast 3 percent slope on the fairways.  Some times to do that you have to add basins. 

[Brian Phillips]

We started to use Catch Basins on all of our work in Norway now especially in the South of Norway where the rainfall is high.  The finishing into a couple of those Catch Basins looks very soft almost too soft for the climate.

3% fall is way too little on most courses in Scandinavia even with creeping bent fairways due to the ice melt that occurs in the Spring.  If it is a bent fescue fairway I would be looking at about 6% fall around the CBs.

Donal,

There is so much pressure on clubs these days to stay open and keep traffic moving that CBs are one of the best ways to drain a site quickly and efficiently, they are not pretty but they do work.

I have asked a number of players about their feelings about them and they all agree they would rather have CBs and get a free drop from them than have a ball in a soggy lie.

They also help maintenance tremendously as well.

[Bill_McBride]

I don't know how to find them, but there were some hilarious arguments between (IIRC) Tommy Nacarratto -- the idealist, no catch basins anywhere! -- and Jeff Brauer -- the realist, how else can you create underground drainage?

Funniest catch basin I ever saw was at Isleworth, dead on top of a ridge in the rough!  I suspect this was more a vent than a drain but it was pretty amusing.

Bandon Dunes has a few in the bottom of divot-littered holes around the fairways, lots of balls wind up in them.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Is it not a case that catch basins are good for climates with heavy downpours and that traditional primary and secondary land drainage is sufficient for climates with more constant but less heavy precipitation?

Aside from aesthetics, could someone (who actually knows) highlight what they see as all the pros and cons of these methods in different climates?

That would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Ally

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

I don't know how to find them, but there were some hilarious arguments between (IIRC) Tommy Nacarratto -- the idealist, no catch basins anywhere! -- and Jeff Brauer -- the realist, how else can you create underground drainage?

Bill:

I had a good read before I posted this topic. Do a search on "catch basin" and you'll find those posts.

Is it not a case that catch basins are good for climates with heavy downpours and that traditional primary and secondary land drainage is sufficient for climates with more constant but less heavy precipitation?

Aside from aesthetics, could someone (who actually knows) highlight what they see as all the pros and cons of these methods in different climates?

That would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Ally

Ally:

I'm sure there are some good reasons to have them, but what I can't understand is why one course (Bro Hof) built in 2008-9 has them, and another gold course (Bro-Bĺlsta) not more than 2-km away built in 1985 doesn't have them.

I'm sure some will say that you cannot compare two sites 2-km apart, one which lies on a lake and one that is 2-km inland. Bro Hof was built at a cost of millions while Bro-Bĺlsta was built on a shoe-string budget.

It just puzzles me. We got along fine without them for hundreds of years.

Dónal.

[Alan FitzGerald CGCS MG]

Is it not a case that catch basins are good for climates with heavy downpours and that traditional primary and secondary land drainage is sufficient for climates with more constant but less heavy precipitation?

Aside from aesthetics, could someone (who actually knows) highlight what they see as all the pros and cons of these methods in different climates?

That would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Ally

Ally
you are correct. The main reason for catch basin drainage to quickly drain large amounts of surface water especially in climates where heavy thunderstorms are prevelant. Again not knowing the site I can see two main reasons; one being, if the climate is as Donal says, is to remove water from heavy downpours and secondly it is probably also speced to help speed up the runoff from snow melt.

By quickly removing the surface water it takes the pressure off subsurface drainage (as the water doesn't stick around long enough to soak in so the course stays drier.) In a climate such as Irelands these types do not work as well because the precipatation does not produce the volumes of water do create a flow to the cb and it just soaks in. They do help in Ireland/UK on courses that have added extensive drainage systems to help speed up drainage by giving the subsurface water somewhere to go (as the bigger pipes can handle the flow). They also make for good venting/clean-out points.

The biggest downside besides having them look bad on a course is in order to get water to them, the course architecture has to take them into account so you see more rolls etc in fairways, roughs etc

[Alan FitzGerald CGCS MG]

Ally:

I'm sure there are some good reasons to have them, but what I can't understand is why one course (Bro Hof) built in 2008-9 has them, and another gold course (Bro-Bĺlsta) not more than 2-km away built in 1985 doesn't have them.

I'm sure some will say that you cannot compare two sites 2-km apart, one which lies on a lake and one that is 2-km inland. Bro Hof was built at a cost of millions while Bro-Bĺlsta was built on a shoe-string budget.

It just puzzles me. We got along fine without them for hundreds of years.

Dónal.

Donal

Budget obviously makes a big difference but much of it depends on the land/soil. There was a proliferation of these types of drainage systems in Ireland in the 90s mainly due to the US architects coming in (Nicklaus, RTJ etc; the Doak, Crenshaw type architects etc generally don't add them), it being a big part of their specs to remove surface water in the US. As such they didn't work as effectively as they would in the US and many courses had to add supplementary drainage to get subsurface water to these mainlines.

[Adam Lawrence]

The other point about Bro Hof is that I would be very surprised if they are allowed to let water run off into the lake. Given the course is so  low-lying, and presumably the land naturally tilted towards the lake, how would you surface drain it?

[Ally Mcintosh]

Thanks Alan... That's pretty much as I understood it... A couple more questions though:

Does it therefore just come down to a function of budget? i.e. If you go with catch basins, they just effectively tie up and drain by a series of main drains and very few laterals (i.e. less linear yardage)... Would the ideal be to have a tile sub-drainage system with sand slits as secondary drainage and catch basins for surface drainage as well?... In other words, absolutely everything?... Obviously cost is a major factor but is it the ONLY factor?... Can you combine both systems?

Thanks again

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

The main reason for catch basin drainage to quickly drain large amounts of surface water especially in climates where heavy thunderstorms are prevelant. Again not knowing the site I can see two main reasons; one being, if the climate is as Donal says, is to remove water from heavy downpours and secondly it is probably also speced to help speed up the runoff from snow melt.

The biggest downside besides having them look bad on a course is in order to get water to them, the course architecture has to take them into account so you see more rolls etc in fairways, roughs etc

Alan:

I suppose it's a combination of things. The last snows have usually melted by mid-April, so to get the course back in shape quickly, the CBs are needed. Mid-Sweden doesn't get drizzly rain like in Ireland or the UK. When it rains in summer, it can really come down heavy.

Also, these courses were built to hold tournaments. Next year the Stadium course will hold the Scandinavian Masters and they hope to bid for the 2018 Ryder Cup, so

Many of the catch basins are located in the middle of fairly flat fairways. These areas were quite wet even in October, yet we hadn't had much rain.

The other point about Bro Hof is that I would be very surprised if they are allowed to let water run off into the lake. Given the course is so  low-lying, and presumably the land naturally tilted towards the lake, how would you surface drain it?

Adam:

This is a very valid point. Both courses at Bro Hof are built close to the lake. There's also and area where birds nest and it's protected. One other thing I noticed when walking Bro Hof was the blue colour of the water lying in puddles on the car paths. I can understand not allowing that to seep into the lake.

Dónal.

[Alan FitzGerald CGCS MG]

Thanks Alan... That's pretty much as I understood it... A couple more questions though:

Does it therefore just come down to a function of budget? i.e. If you go with catch basins, they just effectively tie up and drain by a series of main drains and very few laterals (i.e. less linear yardage)... Would the ideal be to have a tile sub-drainage system with sand slits as secondary drainage and catch basins for surface drainage as well?... In other words, absolutely everything?... Obviously cost is a major factor but is it the ONLY factor?... Can you combine both systems?

Thanks again

Ally
I guess it all depends on where you are, what your soils are like and what your climate is. Here near Philly the catch basins on their own to a decent job of getting rid of the water but we get more downpours than prolonged light rain and my soils drain quickly. (Although this year being as wet as it was, we definitely could have used more drainage.)

I guess there are three levels, just catch basins to remove only surface water, only subsurface drainage (with laterals, possibly combined with sand bands) or a combination of both to maximize surface and subsurface drainage. As you said catch basins are an effective way to tie together a series of main lines and laterals and use the basins and their larger pipes as a 'freeway' to the outlet whether it be a pond or whatever.

I have seen both systems combined with spectacular results (the entire property has been topdressed over the years also to speed up water getting to the sand bands). The last time I was there was after a week of rain and it was damp but not wet. And yes cost is the biggest factor!

[Philippe Binette]

Drainage is key for golf...

sometimes, you see catch basins that are created solely because of overshaping and you wonder... why would you do a bowl where could just tie in the native, the slope is sufficient for surface drainage etc...

but

some regulation prevent courses to surface drain in the native ground, or in ditches or creek, so you have to contain all water and return it to the lakes on the course. If an internal drainage system is required, catch basins are necessary

[Jeff_Brauer]

I won't repost any of my previous missives regaring drainage, but I will point out that the number of catch basins shouldn't decrease with the amount of rainfall. I once installed over $500K in drainage on a course in Las Vegas, a pure desert. It got used more often to handle the nuisance drainage coming off the surrounding housing lots that were over irrigating their lawns than it did for rainstorms.

[Bill_McBride]

I won't repost any of my previous missives regaring drainage, but I will point out that the number of catch basins shouldn't decrease with the amount of rainfall. I once installed over $500K in drainage on a course in Las Vegas, a pure desert. It got used more often to handle the nuisance drainage coming off the surrounding housing lots that were over irrigating their lawns than it did for rainstorms.

So I guess no chats with Tommy on this subject lately, eh? 

He seems to have disappeared to the dark side.   

[Jeff_Brauer]

Bill,

I actually met up with Tommy in LA earlier this year and had dinner.  We toured a few courses and he actually said he would love to have me take the time to explain drainage (from my perspective) to him.  While he doesn't like catch basins for the obvious reasons, and is a purist on the net, when he gets off the net, he understands that the real world intervenes.

Hmm, with the golf show in San Diego in Feb., I might ring him up again.  Very nice fellow in person and we never had any problem with each other, despite some of the heated debates on drainage and ASGCA.  I wonder if some of the other combatants on this site could say the same about their "arch enemies?"

[Bill_McBride]

Bill,

I actually met up with Tommy in LA earlier this year and had dinner.  We toured a few courses and he actually said he would love to have me take the time to explain drainage (from my perspective) to him.  While he doesn't like catch basins for the obvious reasons, and is a purist on the net, when he gets off the net, he understands that the real world intervenes.

Hmm, with the golf show in San Diego in Feb., I might ring him up again.  Very nice fellow in person and we never had any problem with each other, despite some of the heated debates on drainage and ASGCA.  I wonder if some of the other combatants on this site could say the same about their "arch enemies?"

The solution to online discord is the occasional face to face meeting.  It's the "grillroom syndrome," no one would ever say some of the things in a grill room that are routinely said here in the asylum when it's not face to face.   

Tommy is a kick, he knows every Italian restaurant south of San Jose!

[Jeff_Brauer]

Bill,

As it happens, we ate Mexican!

[Jason Topp]

We have one hole where the addition of a catch basin dramatically improved the design of the hole in addition to adressing drainage issues.  217 yard par three with ob right about 20 yards from the green edge.  Originally, there were bunkers at guarding both front corners of the green.  We removed the bunker on the left and created a short grass hollow.  Players bailing out left used to be forced to lob over the bunker.  Now, they have a variety of interesting shots they can play (putt, chip through the swale or lob) to a green that slopes away and left to right. 

[Bill_McBride]

Bill,

As it happens, we ate Mexican!

It's not hard to see that the Emperor is a fan of all cusines!

[Brian Phillips]

If used in a positive manner catch basins can produce some great rolls in your fairways and around greens.  The problem you can get with catch basins is that they get designed with the exact same percentage of fall to the low point and then the design looks monotonous. 

If you vary the slopes down to the low points then some really interesting areas can be created.  This requires a near perfect grading plan (nearly impossible) or a good shaper combined with regular visits from the architect (time on site).

[Joel_Stewart]

To me its just poor construction and poor architecture.

This year I played 2 courses that are extremes with catch basins. 

The 1st was Fazio's course in Lake Tahoe called Martis Camp which is built on rock.  Amazing that I walked possibly 14 or 15 holes before I saw one.  The building was superb, they are able to hide the catch basins. Unbelievable good construction by Wadsworth.

The 2nd was by Gene Bates at Fort Ord in Monterey.  These two golf courses are built in sand which you would think would have good drainage.  I don't know if it was Bates or the construction company but there are catch basins everywhere and crazy unnatural mounding everywhere to allow the water runoff.  One of the worst constructed courses I have seen in the last few years and just terrible architecture.