Mound or bunker?

[BCrosby]

One of the great mounds in golf guards the front left entrance to the 8th at ANGC. There are a couple of smaller mounds at mid-green on the right that also work wonderfully. None of them gets much discussion, but they are an important part of what makes the 8th a great, great par 5.

Bob

  

[Anthony Gray]

  The 4th at TOC is protected by a bunker if you come in from the left,which is the safest play of the tee. The mound only comes into play if you hit a runner from the right/center fairway. The mound is a feature that does not come into play often but adds great mystque. It is the thing you remember the most about the hole after the round.

  Anthony

[Bill_McBride]

  The 4th at TOC is protected by a bunker if you come in from the left,which is the safest play of the tee. The mound only comes into play if you hit a runner from the right/center fairway. The mound is a feature that does not come into play often but adds great mystque. It is the thing you remember the most about the hole after the round.

  Anthony

Where?  One sits in front of the narrow part of the green that connects w/ 14, but it does not protect the green from any angle, even if you play from 15 fairway.

And the bunker "if you come in from the left" is barely in play, maybe 60 yards short. 

Maybe Anthony meant to type #4 instead of #14!

[Jon Wiggett]

Kelly, Bill,

last time I played the mound on four was slap bang in the line of play from the middle of the fourth fairway. Maybe you were playing the reverse course

I also have followed a similar path of enlightenment to Sean in that I too used think that a GCA ideal was to make the course appear as though it was all natural. Now I am much more of the opinion that the course should challenge the player and be a joy to the player to play. On sites with good natural movement this is easier to achieve whilst making the course look natural but on flat property it is not. There are many great inland courses in Britain that are fun to play, look artificial but at the same time harmonise with the land. This is something that many/most 1950 to 1990 courses didn't have.

Kingsbarnes is amazing to look at and a great achievement that only people who saw the site prior to the golf course can fully appreciate. Castle Stuart falls into the same category. Both courses would however be totally out of place in an inland setting even if they played the same they would be wrong.

On the same lines Alwoodley and Woodall Spa have many artificial/none natural features but they fit the landscape they are set in beautifully. Inland courses will nearly always be about getting the artificial to fit in the landscape. Tom D made a comment 'inserting a feature which looks obviously artificial would be like shooting myself in the foot'. I would suggest that any bunker on a none sandy site is obviously artificial but if they sit well in the landscape they are okay. Therefore the key word in Tom's statement for me is 'looks'.

But there is also, as Sean mentions, the argument that any new fetaure that veers strongly from the norm will create a certain amount of dislike at the beginning but often these very features are those that become the most loved and untouchable in the long run.

[Sean_A]

Kelly, Bill,

last time I played the mound on four was slap bang in the line of play from the middle of the fourth fairway. Maybe you were playing the reverse course

I also have followed a similar path of enlightenment to Sean in that I too used think that a GCA ideal was to make the course appear as though it was all natural. Now I am much more of the opinion that the course should challenge the player and be a joy to the player to play. On sites with good natural movement this is easier to achieve whilst making the course look natural but on flat property it is not. There are many great inland courses in Britain that are fun to play, look artificial but at the same time harmonise with the land. This is something that many/most 1950 to 1990 courses didn't have.

Kingsbarnes is amazing to look at and a great achievement that only people who saw the site prior to the golf course can fully appreciate. Castle Stuart falls into the same category. Both courses would however be totally out of place in an inland setting even if they played the same they would be wrong.

On the same lines Alwoodley and Woodall Spa have many artificial/none natural features but they fit the landscape they are set in beautifully. Inland courses will nearly always be about getting the artificial to fit in the landscape. Tom D made a comment 'inserting a feature which looks obviously artificial would be like shooting myself in the foot'. I would suggest that any bunker on a none sandy site is obviously artificial but if they sit well in the landscape they are okay. Therefore the key word in Tom's statement for me is 'looks'.

But there is also, as Sean mentions, the argument that any new fetaure that veers strongly from the norm will create a certain amount of dislike at the beginning but often these very features are those that become the most loved and untouchable in the long run.

Yes, in an odd sort of way, Kington was the first course that really opened my eyes to the prospect of unnatural, yet still very attractive looking golf - even though I had seen plenty of weird features previously.  Playing Yeamans Hall this past spring brought the idea full circle.  That course is totally manufactured and makes no bones about it.  I also really like the look of Lawsonia and it too looks bizarre on the landscape - judging from the pix.  More and more I am thinking that what people mean by "natural" is attractive. 

Ciao

[Gary Slatter]

I love the mound on the 4th hole at St. Andrews.  I've tried to build a similar feature a couple of times, but never had it turn out half as well.

That said, I generally don't put in mounds on my golf courses because I think they look unnatural in many landscapes.  On a tabletop like Cape Kidnappers or Riverfront, they really stick out like a sore thumb.  But on a dunesy course, they're fine, so perhaps I have failed to take advantage of the opportunity as often as I should.

Tom, I thought that you had a very subtle mound just short of the centre of the green approach at the Rennaisance Club hole #14 (?)  It is a short par five downhill and the "mound" really makes a difference for the third shot.  Normally you would think of running the ball back to the pin, but not there.