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JC Jones

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Re: Starting Tues, 12/8 - Get To Know Joe Hancock
« Reply #75 on: December 09, 2009, 12:39:31 PM »
What, in your opinion is the best course not named The Mines or Pilgrims Run in west michigan?

How many clubs do you carry when you walk, which ones and why?

If you could only play one, which would you choose, Aiken GC or Palmetto?

How do you eat so much and stay so fit?  Especially for someone your age?

Do you miss staying up late at night and talking architecture until we fall asleep?

I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Joe Hancock

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Re: Starting Tues, 12/8 - Get To Know Joe Hancock
« Reply #76 on: December 09, 2009, 01:59:18 PM »
What, in your opinion is the best course not named The Mines or Pilgrims Run in west michigan?

How many clubs do you carry when you walk, which ones and why?

If you could only play one, which would you choose, Aiken GC or Palmetto?

How do you eat so much and stay so fit?  Especially for someone your age?

Do you miss staying up late at night and talking architecture until we fall asleep?



Next best courses in W. MI: Kent CC in a drier frame of mind would be a very fun golf course. Blythefield CC is good, but could be so much better with original Langford and Moreau features restored.....deep grass faced bunkers, greens with original contours, etc. And another very good golf course is L.E Kaufman, designed by Grandpa Matthews(W.Bruce)

When I walk, I carry 8 or 9 clubs because I can't carry 14 without my back and feet hurting. I give some thought to the course, conditions and length when I pick. Often though, I will carry the driver, 3 wood, 4i, 6i, 8i, wedge, sand wedge and putter. I don't know how much it changes my score, nor do I care, but it forces me to have to invent a few shots per round. I have a lot of fun with that, so I almost think about playing half the set even when riding(gasp!).

Aiken vs. Palmetto: Tough question. If I were totally honest with myself, I'd have to acknowledge the deficiencies in my game, primarily the short game(maybe because I don't play enough). I had more fun at Aiken, partly because the greens were a touch slower and more manageable for me. Palmetto's greens were greasy fast and with the rolled of edges in abundance at Palmetto it made for a working round of golf. Not that it wasn't fun, but my game is likely more in harmony with what we found at Aiken.

Diet program: None. I don't worry much about what I eat, but I try to be sensible. I eat kind of slow, which I think I picked up from my wife over the years. I have a bowl of ice cream almost every night while watching TV. I cook and eat a lot of fresh veggies. And, I'm probably just one of the lucky ones from a physiological standpoint.

Any time of day or night is a good time to talk about architecture, maintenance, the golf biz.....I don't fall asleep easily when discussing those things!

Joe
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Sean_A

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Re: Starting Tues, 12/8 - Get To Know Joe Hancock
« Reply #77 on: December 09, 2009, 02:20:56 PM »
Crazy Joe

As a born and bred Michigander I do worry some for the long term health of the state.  Not having lived in the state for some many years now and with my final years being in Ann Arbor (not exactly typical of Michigan), I feel quite out of touch.  How do you see things (things as in general or specific) in Michigan currently and in the future?

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024:Winterfield, Alnmouth, Camden, Palmetto Bluff Crossroads Course, Colleton River Dye Course  & Old Barnwell

Anthony Gray

Re: Starting Tues, 12/8 - Get To Know Joe Hancock
« Reply #78 on: December 09, 2009, 02:25:35 PM »


  Joe,

  My DAD put diesel in my suv which resulted in a $3,000 repair bill. Is a CAT Scan an appropiate xmass gift?

  when you owned your course, how many hours a week did you put in?

  Did you own it or did it own you?

  Did you serve as the super also?

  Why do like Tom Paul's posts more than mine?

  Thanks again......Anthony


Joe Hancock

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Re: Starting Tues, 12/8 - Get To Know Joe Hancock
« Reply #79 on: December 09, 2009, 03:24:02 PM »
Crazy Joe

As a born and bred Michigander I do worry some for the long term health of the state.  Not having lived in the state for some many years now and with my final years being in Ann Arbor (not exactly typical of Michigan), I feel quite out of touch.  How do you see things (things as in general or specific) in Michigan currently and in the future?

Ciao

Sean,

I'm afraid if I answer your post honestly, I will have to reveal my general political tendencies...and they don't align all that much with Detroit, unions and having a State economy that rests almost solely on one industry.  ;D

We are in a quandary. Our State has had all its eggs in one basket for far too long. Now that the American auto industry is in trouble, we don't have a lot of other manufacturing companies to hire the laid off auto workers. So, it's time for an exodus of people. Which leaves even less people here to help pay the taxes of a bloated State government. It's a lose-lose proposition. Fortunately, I don't place my hope and personal security in any of the above, so I don't let things bother me too much.

Joe
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Joe Hancock

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Re: Starting Tues, 12/8 - Get To Know Joe Hancock
« Reply #80 on: December 09, 2009, 03:30:16 PM »


  Joe,

  My DAD put diesel in my suv which resulted in a $3,000 repair bill. Is a CAT Scan an appropiate xmass gift?

  when you owned your course, how many hours a week did you put in?

  Did you own it or did it own you?

  Did you serve as the super also?

  Why do like Tom Paul's posts more than mine?

  Thanks again......Anthony



ARG,

I don't think your Dad giving you a CAT scan is a good idea.

I worked a lot of hours, but it was because I wanted to. I enjoyed it. If I worked 60 hours, it was generally 60 enjoyable hours...especially in the early mornings.

I owned it, it didn't own me. I had employees whom I gave respect and trust, and paid them to help share the burdens of operating the golf course. We got along great.

I did serve as the super, even when I took Sabbaticals to go work with DeVries. I miss that aspect of my life, quite honestly, but doing construction...travel, seeing great golf courses, meeting absolutely wonderful people...is too great of an attraction now.

I sometimes have as much trouble deciphering Tom Paul's posts as I do yours...so you've drawn an illogical conclusion.  :)

Joe
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Anthony Gray

Re: Starting Tues, 12/8 - Get To Know Joe Hancock
« Reply #81 on: December 09, 2009, 03:42:55 PM »


  O K that all I got. Hope to see you at the Dixie next year. IM me your pant size so you can look a little more respectable next year.

  Anthony


Joe Hancock

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Re: Starting Tues, 12/8 - Get To Know Joe Hancock
« Reply #82 on: December 09, 2009, 03:45:24 PM »


  O K that all I got.



From that statement, I conclude that you find Mike Young 28 times more interesting than you do me. Is that about right?

 ;D
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Anthony Gray

Re: Starting Tues, 12/8 - Get To Know Joe Hancock
« Reply #83 on: December 09, 2009, 03:57:15 PM »


  Joe,

  How long have you been a Georgia Tech fan?

  What was your biggest challenge at LOngshadow?

  What are you buying Charlie Steiner for Xmass?

  What is the weather like in Athens today?

  Anthony


John Moore II

Re: Starting Tues, 12/8 - Get To Know Joe Hancock
« Reply #84 on: December 09, 2009, 04:17:13 PM »
Joe

Did you work anywhere in Eastern NC other than Carolina Pines?

What is your favorite East NC golf course; a course east of I-95 and public (places like Cape Fear CC don't count)

Why did you become a Super and where did you go to school?

How often do you play?

(If these questions have been asked before, sorry, I wasn't going to read 84 posts to get here)

Joe Hancock

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Re: Starting Tues, 12/8 - Get To Know Joe Hancock
« Reply #85 on: December 09, 2009, 04:26:19 PM »
Joe

Did you work anywhere in Eastern NC other than Carolina Pines?

What is your favorite East NC golf course; a course east of I-95 and public (places like Cape Fear CC don't count)

Why did you become a Super and where did you go to school?

How often do you play?

(If these questions have been asked before, sorry, I wasn't going to read 84 posts to get here)

JKM,

I also worked at Fox Squirrel CC and at Landfall.

I liked Wilmington Muni, Minnesott Beach and Star Hill for fun little publics. They weren't in great shape much of the time, but there was always a game to be had.

I became a super because I went to Michigan Tech.  ;D

Seriously, I went to Tech for EE, but discovered it wasn't for me. I had worked on the golf course since I was 17 and loved it, so when I had enough of school I just went back to work, without knowing there was college work towards becoming a super. So, ultimately, I did it the hard way, but I wouldn't trade my path for anything. I've learned so much in the field that I can't imagine trading any of the experience in for classroom time, even though it does make the learning curve in the field shorter.

I play about 20 times per year, to a 6 or 7 handicap. Lowest I've ever gone was a 67...first time I played it! That's been about 7 or 8 years ago, and I don't know that I'll ever play enough to go low again.

Joe

" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

John Moore II

Re: Starting Tues, 12/8 - Get To Know Joe Hancock
« Reply #86 on: December 09, 2009, 04:31:03 PM »
I liked Wilmington Muni, Minnesott Beach and Star Hill for fun little publics. They weren't in great shape much of the time, but there was always a game to be had.

Oh yes, great old Star Hill. Have you played there since they renovated it? For the better I think, but I'd still just as soon they ban me from ever playing there again. The staff there irritates me terribly, and one of them is a good friend of mine.

Little story about Minnesott Beach. The only golf tournament I've ever won as an individual I won there. Had to make par on the last or I would have lost. That hole is not easy, fairly long par 4, water all down the left side and dense trees left. The guy who finished second to me was like 4 under par on the back nine and I was only one stroke ahead of him on the round. Some how I managed to make that par (actually made birdie) but I was more worried about snap-hooking one into the pond. I was shaking on the tee, but it turned out well.

Joe Hancock

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Re: Starting Tues, 12/8 - Get To Know Joe Hancock
« Reply #87 on: December 09, 2009, 04:34:33 PM »
JKM,

It's been many, many years since I've played those courses. I moved back to Michigan in 1993. Moved to NC in 1984! Wow, I'm old....

Joe
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

John Moore II

Re: Starting Tues, 12/8 - Get To Know Joe Hancock
« Reply #88 on: December 09, 2009, 04:39:41 PM »
JKM,

It's been many, many years since I've played those courses. I moved back to Michigan in 1993. Moved to NC in 1984! Wow, I'm old....

Joe

OH, so that was a few years ago.  OK, what are you thoughts about the tree on 15 at Carolina Pines? (I think 15, the par 5 with the center line tree) I actually like it, pretty cool look for that hole, and the fairway is wide enough to not be stupid with the tree there.

Matt_Ward

Re: Starting Tues, 12/8 - Get To Know Joe Hancock
« Reply #89 on: December 09, 2009, 04:54:35 PM »
Joe:

Curious to know the following:

1). Top ten courses ever played ?

2). Top ten public courses ever played ?

3). Top ten public courses ever played for less than $100 to play ?

Sorry to ask so much but I'm always interested in what people can offer.

thanks ...

Joe Hancock

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Re: Starting Tues, 12/8 - Get To Know Joe Hancock
« Reply #90 on: December 09, 2009, 05:03:50 PM »
JKM,

It's been many, many years since I've played those courses. I moved back to Michigan in 1993. Moved to NC in 1984! Wow, I'm old....

Joe

OH, so that was a few years ago.  OK, what are you thoughts about the tree on 15 at Carolina Pines? (I think 15, the par 5 with the center line tree) I actually like it, pretty cool look for that hole, and the fairway is wide enough to not be stupid with the tree there.

I never minded that tree. My goal was to be left of it, because if you were right of it with any kind of cut at all, you might be down in the ravine. All in all, an OK tree.

Joe
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Joe Hancock

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Re: Starting Tues, 12/8 - Get To Know Joe Hancock
« Reply #91 on: December 09, 2009, 05:27:19 PM »
Joe:

Curious to know the following:

1). Top ten courses ever played ?

2). Top ten public courses ever played ?

3). Top ten public courses ever played for less than $100 to play ?

Sorry to ask so much but I'm always interested in what people can offer.

thanks ...

Matt,

I may not be able to offer you much. I haven't traveled to play golf much, and when I do travel, it's usually because I'm working.

But, with that in mind, my next caveat is which Top Ten? Mine, or some list? I'll assume you mean mine:

In no particular order:

NGLA
Crystal Downs
Kingsley
Quaker Ridge
Pac Dunes
Bandon Trails
Sand Hills
Ballyneal
Mines
Lawsonia

Publc:

Mines
Rustic Canyon
Aiken GC
Pac Dunes
Bandon Trails
Pilgrim's Run
Lawsonia
Greywalls
WorldWoods Pine Barrens
High Pointe

I am going to skip the $100 category, due to the fact that much of my golf has been graciously comped as professional courtesy. I honestly don't know what most of the courses I play charge for a fee.

Joe
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Jon Heise

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Re: Starting Tues, 12/8 - Get To Know Joe Hancock
« Reply #92 on: December 09, 2009, 05:50:55 PM »
Joe, hi!

How long had you really been in the golf business and what kind of other non-golf related construction work have you done?

Pick an area of the country for "best golf" and why-  Northwest, Southwest, Midwest, Northeast, Southeast.

I'm heading out to the Mines next year for a round, no doubt.  Where else should I play if I want to make it 36?

The situation:  Par 3.  180 yards.  Three guys in your group just waiting to be impressed.  Four iron or driver?    

« Last Edit: December 09, 2009, 06:27:12 PM by Jon Heise »
I still like Greywalls better.

Matt_Ward

Re: Starting Tues, 12/8 - Get To Know Joe Hancock
« Reply #93 on: December 09, 2009, 06:23:08 PM »
Joe:

Thanks for your listing ... which ones are the best in each category ?

Quite an impressive listing for the limited time you have to play.

Peter Zarlengo

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Re: Starting Tues, 12/8 - Get To Know Joe Hancock
« Reply #94 on: December 09, 2009, 07:15:49 PM »
Joe,
Somethings I meant to ask you at Kingsley when we played....

Favorite Hole there?

Favorite 9 there, in or out?

Hope you're well.

And Jon...
You know that snap driver would have gotten going eventually but the bottle of hooch two tees later was playing some serious head games.

Joe Hancock

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Re: Starting Tues, 12/8 - Get To Know Joe Hancock
« Reply #95 on: December 09, 2009, 08:14:48 PM »
Joe:

Thanks for your listing ... which ones are the best in each category ?

Quite an impressive listing for the limited time you have to play.

Matt: The best of list has a couple courses that I've played a fair amount, so it would be easy to say they are my favorite; Kingsley and Crystal Downs. I have to say I was overwhelmed, observation-wise, at the only opportunity I had to play NGLA....it could easily be the best of the bunch, but I'd sure like to see it a few more times before I say so! Kingsley, IMO, is consistently the best marriage of design and conditioning I've ever experienced. The combination of soils, turf and superintendent make it that consistent, and that elevates the enjoyment of the round.

Of the publics, Lawsonia is the one that really captured my imagination.....in other words, if I were to try to do a "tribute" course of any on my public list, Lawsonia is the one I would want a crack at. It was fun, strategic, simple yet complex....and big.

Joe
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Joe Hancock

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Re: Starting Tues, 12/8 - Get To Know Joe Hancock
« Reply #96 on: December 09, 2009, 08:21:15 PM »
Joe,
Somethings I meant to ask you at Kingsley when we played....

Favorite Hole there?

Favorite 9 there, in or out?

Hope you're well.

And Jon...
You know that snap driver would have gotten going eventually but the bottle of hooch two tees later was playing some serious head games.

Hi Peter,

My favorite hole at Kingsley? It has to be #8, just for the pure aesthetics. Or it's #3 for the way the big, rolling green lays at a diagonal to the approach. No, wait...it's #9 just because it's controversial. Scratch that....#13....yep, 13 has it all. temptation, strategy, a huge, funky green that hides itself no matter what you do off the tee. Or possibly it's....well, you get the idea.

I think both nines have characteristics that appeal to different people. I like the outward nine....the views, the multiple punchbowl greens, the ability to play cross-country golf....it's just one of the most fun places to play whatever kind of golf you can imagine.

Good to hear from you, I hope you're well!

Joe
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Bill_McBride

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Re: Starting Tues, 12/8 - Get To Know Joe Hancock
« Reply #97 on: December 09, 2009, 08:22:58 PM »

The situation:  Par 3.  180 yards.  Three guys in your group just waiting to be impressed.  Four iron or driver?    



Jon, you must have not played with Joe at the Dixie Cup - 6 iron!  ;D

Joe Hancock

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Re: Starting Tues, 12/8 - Get To Know Joe Hancock
« Reply #98 on: December 09, 2009, 08:32:32 PM »
Joe, hi!

How long had you really been in the golf business and what kind of other non-golf related construction work have you done?

Pick an area of the country for "best golf" and why-  Northwest, Southwest, Midwest, Northeast, Southeast.

I'm heading out to the Mines next year for a round, no doubt.  Where else should I play if I want to make it 36?

The situation:  Par 3.  180 yards.  Three guys in your group just waiting to be impressed.  Four iron or driver?    



How long have I really been in the golf business? Some might say I never have really been in! I started working at a golf course when I was 16, and I'm almost 49....so what's that, 33 years? No wonder I hurt sometimes.

I do some home repair and that kind of construction if that's what you mean. I've helped a friend with some project management and administration for his log home building company.....

Best region for golf? What's the criteria? Number of days you can play? Quality of soils? Quality of architecture?......

Pound for pound, there isn't anywhere quite like the NE, especially when you think of Westchester County and Long Island. The concentration of superb golf courses is mind blowing, actually.

If you're coming to play the Mines, you can either add another DeVries(Pilgrim's Run, Diamond Springs(great public model)) or you could do LE Kaufman or hit Shadow Ridge in Ionia(9 hole Ross, pretty pure). There's blythefield CC too, if you want to see a Langford and Moreau that's been altered.

And about that 180 yard par 3 shot? Driver all the way, baby!  ;D

Joe
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

tlavin

Re: Starting Tues, 12/8 - Get To Know Joe Hancock
« Reply #99 on: December 09, 2009, 09:06:02 PM »
What's your Top Ten in the Midwest?


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