Played Bethpage Yesterday

[Geoffrey_Walsh]

I was lucky enough to have a 10:51am tee time on the Black yesterday (opening day).  Some thoughts after playing the course on a beautiful sunny day...

1.  It is now a much sterner test for driving.  The fairways have been pinched in to 25-30 yds wide, and they are really starting to firm up.  The problem was not hitting the fairways but holding them.  Most are set at an angle to the tee (#7, #9, & #12 come to mind), so unless your ball flight mirrors the path of the fairway, it is difficult to keep it in the short grass.

2.  The ball really settles down in the rough.  They did a great job getting a uniform height and consistency of rough throughout the entire course (2 inches? while I was there) but it really grabs the clubhead even at its current length.  If they grow it up to 5 inches, some holes become unreachable in two from the rough (10, 12, 15, 16).

3.  #10 and #12 will show their teeth in the Open.  Played from the back tees they are listed as 490yds and 499yds respectively (both par 4's).  #10 is flat to slightly uphill and normally plays into the wind with no option to run the ball onto the putting surface.  #12 is a severe dogleg to the left that forces players to carry their drive over deep bunkers at the dogleg but it is very easy to hit it through the fairway.  Most pros will have 200-210 into a gently rolling green.  Make it through #10-#12 even and you'll probably pick up 1-2 strokes on the field.

4.  #9 is starting to grow on me.  It has always been a uncomfortable tee shot for me, because there is no easy target to aim for in the fairway.  Hit the ball short and it will run down to the base of the fairway, leaving a blind shot into the green.  Hit it over the hill and the fairway slopes away from the tee box, causing most balls to now run through the fairway.  The only shot is a high draw around the dogleg.  With the new back tee that stretches the hole to 420 yds, it is fair (most pro's will hit 3 wood), but they still have to execute the shot.

5.  In addition to some birdies, you are going to see some big numbers on #4.  They have cleared out the area behind the green, shaved down the bank and created a chipping area with some tight lies.  However, for guys trying to hit the green in two, the firm putting surface slopes away from the fairway and there is nothing stopping the ball from running down the hill and through the trees behind the green.  It is JAIL from down there.

6.  Finally, the sand.  It is common knowledge that Bethpage's main defense, in addition to its length, are the bunkers.  Unless, they really change the grooming in the next two months (which is not probable), the pro's will complain about the bunkers.  The sand is beautiful, but deadly because it has such a fine texture.  The ball easily plugs in the faces and creates some really nasty lies.  I hit a 6 iron the just hit under the lip on #17 and the ball nearly disappeared.  It is also a lot harder to hit out of the fairway bunkers.  You should see some of the possible lies in the fairway bunker between #10 & #11.  I think the USGA is trying to restore some fear to these hazards, and some pro's will learn after trying to hit out of them.  After you have been burned by one, you really start to notice the pure white faces and those putting surfaces look a lot smaller from the fairway.

It was a wonderful experience to play the course on opening day and I think it will be a fitting test for the national championship.  If anyone has any specific questions, let me know.

[THuckaby2]

No questions, just thank you VERY MUCH for the review.  I am really starting to get jazzed about this...

TH

[ChrisB (Guest)]

I'll bet a lot of guys intentionally hit it in the front bunker on #4 rather than attempt the carry if everything behind is shaved down.  Of course, that means the USGA will place at least 2 pins (and maybe 3) hard against the bunker, forcing more plays out to the right and making wedge approaches tougher.  I'll be interested to see what happens on this hole, and whether shaving it down behind the green actually makes the hole play easier (if fewer risks are taken) or harder.

[Matt_Ward]

Geoffrey:

How would you assess the character of the first three holes? As you know, these holes are often the weakest of the grouping on the Black.

Glad you mentioned the 9th hole -- one of the most underrated tee shots on the course. Players will likely avoid hitting driver to keep the ball in the fairway but if any wind blows in (from the south) the demands will grow and many will have to hit driver to get as far as possible down the fairway.

How would you assess the general turf conditions given the fact that the entire Northeast had a very mild winter? Was the rough (even though it's still low now) uniform in grass coverage?

Finally, give me your take on the 18th as it is today?

Thanks.

[DMoriarty]

Geoffrey,

Thanks for your informative review.

I walked the course in late December and it appeared that the fairways were cut so narrow that many of the fairway bunkers were completely out of play, except on very wild shots.  Is this the case?

[Mike_Cirba]

What are the odds that the USGA will stand for unfair, inconsistent, penal bunkers?

I see lots of raking, watering, and grooming going on in the next six weeks.   Heaven forbid they should play as hazards!

[Geoffrey_Walsh]

Chris - Couldn't agree more with your observations on #4.  They will no doubt put those pins hard against the front bunker which will cause more pro's to check their ego at the door and play it as a three-shotter.  One of the great par 5's in the world (ceratinly one of the most breathtaking).

Matt - The first three holes are definitely the easiest stretch on the course and the pro's better take advantage of the scoring opportunities.  However, the key shots in this stretch are the tee shot on #1 and the approach on #3.  Hit in the rough off the first tee (factor in the pressure of the opening shot) and the par 4 plays a lot tougher.  In regards to #3, the new tee has a harder angle and a back left pin placement would be tough.

The conditions were immaculate.  The fairways were the finest I have ever played, not a divot mark to be seen.  The green were certainly not cut down to Open speeds but were true.  The mild winter certainly helped them.  They also pruned all of lower limbs on the trees so that you can now see through to other holes on the course and it improves the air flow as well.  Their only concern now is that they get enough rain between now and June. The rough is uniform around the fairways and greens, but there are some tight lies around the woods (with little or no grass).

#18 plays much different from the back tees.  If the bunkers are as difficult as when I played, most pro's will take them out of play by hitting 3 wood, leaving a 8 iron into the elevated green.  The hole makes for a great 72nd with the natural amphitheater behind the green.

DMoriarty - Their are some bunkers that have a good bit of rough between them and the fairway but most of the major ones are definitely very much in play.  I hit what I thought was a great drive down the right side on #10 only to see the ball disappear.  The bunker pinches into the fairway at about 250 yds from the white tees.  The fairway bunkers on #4, #5, #7, #10, #12, #13 & #18 are all easily reachable.

[Jeff_Lewis]

What is your impression about the the undulation of the greens and whether or not they are too flat to challenge the pros...even at zippy speeds?

[Geoffrey_Walsh]

Jeff,

Great question....

The greens at Bethpage can be extremely frustrating because many of them look flat and straight but actually have subtle breaks.  I must have had 5 or 6 putts that I played straight in but they burned the edges instead.  Some guys will putt very well on these greens but others will have a hard time if they don't read these greens correctly.  All in all I think the greens fit the length of the golf course perfectly.

[Tim_Weiman]

Mike Cirba:

A few years back the folks at Best Sand Company (a big supplier to the golf industry) indicated that the USGA had expressed interest in finer sand to make bunkers more of a hazard.

Some of this stuff went in at Sand Ridge and it was brutal.  I've always been a lousy bunker player, but this stuff made things near impossible. There were certain bunkers I just didn't want to go anywhere near.

Maybe what Geoffrey Walsh is reporting is what the USGA really wants.

[Mike_Cirba]

Tim Weiman;

I would be overjoyed to hear that I'm wrong, as your report suggests.  

[Matt_Ward]

Anyone familiar with the Black will easily recall that before all the renovation work got started the texture of the sand at the course was extremely fine. Many times balls would land in the bunkers and finding buries lies was a common reality.

I can also recall how difficult it was to actually walk to your ball on some of the steeper bunkers -- i.e., the top half of the 4th hole cross bunker, the front greenside bunker at #15, etc, etc. I've seen many a player actually slide back and forth in terms of trying to get a stance and even a half swing to escape.

Compact sand is really unnecessary at the world class level -- there is no risk and uncertainty for the player since the lie and stance are almost always uniform. I agree with Mike that such a situation should be changed to really put some fear into what has become a pro forma matter.

P.S. One last note on the Black -- too bad the USGA did not have the 7th hole alternate as a long par-4 and it's original design as a par-5.

One other comment raised by Geoffrey -- the rough at the Black when it is thick and juicy is some of the most demanding stuff one can imagine. Getting any type of distance from the stuff is far from easy.

Also, agree with the assessment on the 10th -- if you don't hit the fairway off the tee many players will have to lay-up about 70-100 yards in front of the depression that leads the player to the putting surface.  

[Jamie_Duffner]

What a great update.  I have never been more excited about a golf tournament.  I fondly remember my three letter exchange with David Fay about fivr years ago!

Heck, what about #5! No way anyone gets to that green from the rough and talk about working the ball, you had better hit a fade up the gut of that fairway.  The angles of the Black are marvelous.

About the first 3 holes.  I couldn't agree more with your assertion about the tee shots on 1 and 3, although you'd better be in the fairway on 2 as well, otherwise that shot up the hill is no bargain and you certainly won't hold that green out of the rough.  Look for front right and tight on #2 as a favorite spot for the USGA.  I've also said all along that #3 will have some teeth at 210.  Back left will be no picnic.  Any chance they shave down the grass behind 3?  That would be interesting.  I also would advocate shaving down the front of 2.  That would make a front left pin with a little too mcuh spin sort of like spinning it off the front of the 9th at Augusta, the ball could conceivably roll back 50 yards!

The chipping area behind 4 will definitely give the big hitter some concern about trying to get home in two.  

What were your thoughts on 8 and 14?  A couple of pretty tough greens, especially when hard and fast.

[Geoffrey_Walsh]

Jamie,

Funny you should mention #14, because I guess I never really noticed how difficult the green was until yesterday.  There are a couple of knolls that they could put pin placements on that could make the shortish par 3 tougher.

The green on #8 has always been lightning fast from back to front.  Look for a back right pin placement and one just in front or behind the shelf that runs through the green.  Another thing to keep in mind is the tree that guards the front right of the green.  When in full bloom, it blocks the back right pin position on the green, forcing players to fade the ball.  

Finally, I wish they had extended the green all the way to the pond and brought the water more in play.  They have a fairway apron in front of the green which will catch any wayward putts coming down from the top tier.

[Evan Fleisher]

Geoffrey,

Two of my favorites out there are 15 and 16.  How did they play today (rough, wind and greens) and what impact do you think they will have at the open?

[Jamie_Duffner]

Evan - I would say that 15 has potential to play as the most difficult par 4 in US Open history.  The most difficult approach on the course, the most severe green, and a hike up the hill.  It will serve nicely as the "complaint" hole.  There's always one hole at every US Open that they complain is unfair.  15 will certainly be it.  There is some real potential to putt the ball right off the green if you're in the wrong place and I've seen some skilled players do it.

[Geoffrey_Walsh]

Evan,

#15 and #16 played LONG and LONGER.

#15 should finally be recognized as one of the game's most demanding par 4's.  The combination of the fairway angle, elevation change, bunkering and green contours makes it play like a par 4 1/2.  It played slightly with the wind yesterday and not one of our foursome hit the green.  I can't imagine trying to hit that back shelf with a mid to long iron 50 feet above the fairway (with the greens firm and fast).  Knock it over the green or push it right and you bring a 6/7 into the equation.

#16 (489 yds) is often overlooked in the closing four holes, which no doubt alludes to the greatness of the prior hole and the following hole.  The whole key to #16 is the placement of the tee shot.  The tee box faces the right side of the fairway but the best approach is from the left.  You have to hit the fairway to have a legitimate chance for 4.  Players will most often miss the drive in the right rough.  That leaves the player with a 200-210yd carry, out of deep rough, to a green with deep bunkers guarding the front right.  Not fun.  Yesterday it played slightly into the wind.

#16 reminds of an interesting point.  At the Open this year they are teeing off both #1 and #10.  I have to believe that most players would rather tee of #10, so they are fresh and strong going through the brutal, long back nine.  Tillie designed those holes to prey on the player after his energy had been sapped by throughout the round.  However, the player would have to be patient a not get frustrated if he carded bogeys on the first few holes.  Any thoughts?

[Paul Lorenzen]

Jeoffrey
  Am totally stoked by your report..Thanks!
A few questions:
1. Did they retain fairway down the hill at 6? Any risk/reward factor off drive?
2. Can #12 green be reached from either of the fairway bunkers. What type of carry is required from the back tees?
3. How did you get a tee time on opening day?
Thanks again, Paul

[Paul Richards]

Geoffrey:

Thanks for the update.

Are the golfers taking care of the course?  During each of
my two visits there, I noticed how no one had raked a bunker
or fixed a pitch mark.  What's being done to make sure
that these problems are rectified?

[David Kelly]

Geoffrey,
Very interesting report. I know that you have addressed the flatness of the greens and mentioned the subtle breaks but I still fear that the pros are going to have a field day on the greens at the Black.  I haven't played the course since the early 90s but I remember the relief I felt after reaching the putting surfaces.

I wonder if the 14th green (par 3) will be playable when they turbocharge the green speeds. I remember it as being death if you were above the hole.

[Don_Mahaffey]

The USGA publishes specs for bunker sand, specs that cut down on fried eggs, buried lies...and still drains well. You can go to the USGA web site and click on green section and go to bunker construction and find the specs.

Wouldn't it be a quantum leap forward (or backward depending on your point of view) if the specs were revised to actually encourage sand that was more difficult to play out of? Instead of specifying sand that had good playability, we could use sand that assured a bad lie....I hope the USGA did actually try and use sand that is tough to play out of, and in June I hope to never hear "get in the bunker".

[Frank Pasquale]

Geoffrey,
Did they have all of the back tees open?  I know most of the time last season, the back tee boxes were closed on 2,3,4,9,10,12,13,15 & 18.

Also, do you remember how many minutes there were between tee times on Tuesday?  I heard they intended on spacing things out.  I also heard the last tee time of each day will be 1pm (from April 16-May 28).

-Frank

[Geoffrey_Walsh]

Paul L.- They did not keep the fairway on the downslope for #6, creating a much better hole in terms of risk/reward.  I hit driver off the tee (not knowing that was the case) about 280yds and found myself in the rough, on the downslope, trying to hit a very unforgiving green complex.  I have no doubt that some pro's will fly it over everything, but for the guys who hit it 270-290, it will give them something to think about.

In my opinion, unless your first name is Eldrick, there is almost no way to hit the putting surface if you are in the fairway bunker at the dogleg on #12.  You would probably be on an upslope with a blind 225 yd shot to a green surrounded by sand.

In regards to the tee time, I have a park pass and obtained the time through the telephone system.  I got through at exactly 7:00pm (7 days in advance), when the times opened up.

Paul R. - That is a concern of mine as well.  They did a couple of things to address the maintenance issue.  The course will not only be closed on Mondays but also most Tuesdays as well.  In addition, the course is only open from 8am to 1pm, with two times an hour blacked out.  I really feel that restricting twilight play will eliminate a lot of the wear and tear on the course.  Finally, there is a real push from the local players to keep the course in great shape.  I found that I not only looked for my ball mark, but actively searched for other's as well.  However, the sand is a different issue.  The bunkers are so HUGE that it sometimes takes five minutes just to rake them.  I don't see unraked bunkers as that big an issue, for they will definitely be raked for the Open when they shut the course down after Memorial Day.

David K. - I have no doubt that some pro's will putt well on these greens.  However, the good putters must drive the ball well to have any chance on the course.  Otherwise, those 15 footers will be for par/bogey far more often than for birdie.

There were a few greens that would have some turbo charged downhill putts.  #8, #11, #13, #14 and #15 come to mind.  #11 green would be especially slippery, can you imagine a back pin placement and trying to get up and down from the back left bunker!

Frank P. - They had almost none of the "Open" tees in play.  Off the top of my head I think #1 was theonly one you could hit off.  When I signed in they told me if I was caught hitting off of those tees, I would be escorted off the course.  They had also just installed the new Open yardage markers on each box with the tournament logo.

I also noticed that there was an evil little tee box that Jones put in on #15 behind the Open tees, which would stretch the hole to over 480 yds.  However, it will not be used in the tournament to my knowledge.

For the tee times, I think it was every ten minutes with two times blacked out an hour.

[GeoffreyChilds]

I had a State park pass for three years.  I faithfully tried to get through at 7 PM for weekday, weekends, anytime the Black was open.  

In three years I never once got through for a tee time earler than 1PM and that was a very rare try.  Something is fishy with that reservation system. If you get through at 7:03 PM all the times until 5 PM would be booked up. After 7:03 all the times are booked.  At 16 reservations per minute for 5 courses how do they all get booked for the Black in 3 minutes?

Geoffrey (nice name by the way), you were a very lucky man to get that tee time.

Have they planted wild grasses around the edges of the bunkers?  They were starting to do this on #7 when I was there in September and the worker said that this would continue on most of the bunkers.

I agree with the idea of a false front on #2 but I doubt that it will come into play very much given the flat large green.  Without much slope on the green the wedges won't be backing up too much.

I kind of like Matt's idea about alternating tees on #7 to make it a 4 par one day and a 5 the next. With some wind, that back tee at 585 yards over the huge bunker makes for an interesting tee shot.  Has anyone heard of alternating the par on a hole in the middle of a tournament?

I only hope we have the same weather from Thursday to Sunday that we had a Shinnecock in 95.

[David Kelly]

>>>Has anyone heard of alternating the par on a hole in the middle of a tournament?

I can't imagine that the USGA would do this. That would be pretty far "out of the box" thinking from them.