[Cristian]

In the (re)design of golf holes confined by narrow playing corridors; how is it possible to create/add maximum strategic interest, without running the risk of unplayability for high handicappers? I am thinking of for instance centre line/ cross-bunkers, but what else could be done? (apart from widening those corridors)

[Matt_Cohn]

A lot of narrow holes have their own strategy already because of the driver vs. layup choice from the tee.

[Carl Rogers]

A good topic, that I am not sure how to respond.  But please allow me ask the question in terms of a specific course: ... Harbortown.
To add, the issue of high ball vs low ball comes into play there.

[Alex Miller]

Assuming you're talking about straight corridors, I think the diagonal hazard adds the most strategy.

[John Moore II]

I think the fact the hole is narrow provides the strategic interest. Because a shot slightly off line can wind up in the deep grass or the trees. That makes a precise shot off the tee critical. Beyond that its hard to do too much else because youd run the risk of making the hole too hard to play for any level of golfer.

[Bill_McBride]

Would an intense tree-cutting program help? 

The lay up vs risky driver is the real answer I guess.

I started playing at the Indian Valley Golf Club course in Northern Marin County in California.  #5 was a 330 yard single file par 4, with tree line and OB left and a side slope and tree line right.  There were no green side bunkers, the green was tiny.  There was literally a 35 yard wide corridor.

So back in the chute of trees that framed the tee, the decision was obvious.  Do I hit a 5 iron and a 9 iron?  How have I been hitting the driver?  I have hit a lot of power fades over the years so was occasionally inclined to hit the big dog.  But the threat of a big number almost always brought out the mid-iron with thoughts of a par and off to #6.

[mike_malone]

  Gil Hanse did some nice angled bunkering at a humble public course, Downingtown, near Philly.  I haven't been there in a while but I would imagine that angled bunkering can be the ticket for narrow holes, particularly if it is done with an eye to the hazards at the green.

[Mark McKeever]

  Gil Hanse did some nice angled bunkering at a humble public course, Downingtown, near Philly.  I haven't been there in a while but I would imagine that angled bunkering can be the ticket for narrow holes, particularly if it is done with an eye to the hazards at the green.

Great example Mike.  Downingtown is a cool design with a number of narrow holes.  I can remember a few of them were made more interesting by the bunkering that presented options based on the line you took.  I will have to head back there again when the snow melts!

Mark

[mike_malone]

 Does it still exist?

[Patrick_Mucci]

In the (re)design of golf holes confined by narrow playing corridors; how is it possible to create/add maximum strategic interest, without running the risk of unplayability for high handicappers?

I think the above represents a substantive conflict

You've indicated that the playing corridors are already narrow, but, you want to make them even more confining, but, not at the expense of the higher handicap, and that's where the conflict lies.

I think it's almost an impossible task.

But, the real question is, why would you want to make a hole with already narrow playing corridors, more difficult ?

I am thinking of for instance centre line/ cross-bunkers, but what else could be done? (apart from widening those corridors)


A centerline hazard would make already narrow fairways even more narrow.  That's insane, or bad architecture at best.

[mike_malone]

 What Dowingtown had done first to respond to its shortness was to plant the evergreens all over the place. So, I think I need to point out that the angled bunkering is an attempt to ctreate some strategy beyond narrowness. I think Pat's concern is more apparent at a longer , narrow course.

[Adam Clayman]

The new and improved Shadow Creek might be an example of a successful attempt to turn a penal course into a more strategic one. However, one needs to define how narrow narrow is. Otherwise, Pat is absolutely correct. Narrow corridors imply penal, or, straight shot testing courses.

Too bad Peter P is no longer around, he'd appreciate the line Robin Williams said to Kenneth Branaugh in "Dead Again" about smoking, in this context. "Figure out what you are and be it", or words to that affect.

[Kyle Harris]

Place the tee hard against the edge of the corridor, thereby making the golfer selecting how "away" from that side he wishes to play.

This at least puts a "distance vs. risky short route" option in the hands of the golfer from the tee. When combined by some feature up by the green the strategy becomes a little bit more complex.

[Sean_A]

I think the best way to add/maximize strategy for narrow corridor holes is to have few of them - honestly.  They have their place but for nothing like an entire course.  

Diagonal hazards are precipitated on the idea of width and endless lines of negotiating the hazard.  If corridors are narrow it is going to be difficult to create any real risk/reward strategy when a bunker is turned toward or against play.  I would have thought this type of hazard requires at the very least a 35 yard fairway to make it interesting - otherwise its effectively a cross bunker.  I spose now we have to decide what a narrow corridor is.

Ciao

[Brian Phillips]

In the (re)design of golf holes confined by narrow playing corridors; how is it possible to create/add maximum strategic interest, without running the risk of unplayability for high handicappers? I am thinking of for instance centre line/ cross-bunkers, but what else could be done? (apart from widening those corridors)

Christian,

One of the best ways without adding visual pressure (with a bunker) to the high handicapper is re-shaping a fairway to create various stances in certain areas of the fairway.  The closer you get to the green the more internal undulation could be created which puts a certain pressure on the good player to get a wedge or short iron close yet the goal of the high handicapper is the same no matter where they are....just get the ball on the green or close enough to be able to putt or chip.

By not bunkering, the high handicapper is not frightened or really impeded whereas the low handicap player must think about where he can try to lay up of a certain area or carry a certain area depending on the preferences of the shot they like to play; above his feet, below his feet, on an upslope etc..

[Cristian]

In the (re)design of golf holes confined by narrow playing corridors; how is it possible to create/add maximum strategic interest, without running the risk of unplayability for high handicappers?

I think the above represents a substantive conflict

You've indicated that the playing corridors are already narrow, but, you want to make them even more confining, but, not at the expense of the higher handicap, and that's where the conflict lies.

I think it's almost an impossible task.

But, the real question is, why would you want to make a hole with already narrow playing corridors, more difficult ?

I am thinking of for instance centre line/ cross-bunkers, but what else could be done? (apart from widening those corridors)











A centerline hazard would make already narrow fairways even more narrow.  That's insane, or bad architecture at best.

II


I was thinking that centre line bunkers effectively function as cross bunkers on narrow holes. I agree it is difficult, but what do you think of the suggestions above of cross hazards, or creating undulations in the fairway at premium approach distance. it  sounds interesting doesn't it?

[Norbert P]

. . .  how is it possible to create/add maximum strategic interest, without running the risk of unplayability for high handicappers?  . . .

 In addition to what's been said . . .

 Pay close attention to the risk vs. reward approach angles and distances into the green while not forgetting about the turf characteristics. 

 Pay close attention to the risk vs. reward green angles and distances into the green while not forgetting about the turf characteristics.

  Adjust play for different pins.

[Joe Hancock]

. . .  how is it possible to create/add maximum strategic interest, without running the risk of unplayability for high handicappers?  . . .

 In addition to what's been said . . .

 Pay close attention to the risk vs. reward approach angles and distances into the green while not forgetting about the turf characteristics. 

 Pay close attention to the risk vs. reward green angles and distances into the green while not forgetting about the turf characteristics.

  Adjust play for different pins.

Slag,

I was going to go on about the turf conditions(i.e. dry dry dry!) and fairway contours(geological, not mowing patterns.

Let's say a hole is narrow, but the flattest, or even concave part of the fairway exists at 200 yards off the tee. Then at 220 yards out, the fairway develops a spine and it falls off each side. That would create strategy, IMO.

The big caveat is the firmness/ dryness of the playing surface, as you correctly pointed out above.

Joe

[Brian Phillips]

Joe,

You have to be very careful when designing spines on fairways especially on narrow fairways.  Is the spine subtle enough to hold a ball topped by a poor golfer?

If it is to be about 220 yards that is the landing area of many players, can it hold a ball off the tee.  Spines are probably one of the last type of designs I would introduce on a narrow hole.

[Joe Hancock]

Brian,

I think you are 100% correct. It may not be the best way to introduce strategy on a narrow hole, but it is a way....

Joe

[Brian Phillips]

Joe,

On a short narrow hole it could probably work.  You could create your spine beginning about 50-70 yards out from the green with a plateau at the end of the spine merging onto the green. 

The strategy would then be risking getting a good bounce on the spine into the green or being kicked into bunkers around the spine and green. A player could either lay up of the spine or shoot for the green but risk getting bounced into the bunkers if he or she does not quite catch their drive.

[Tom_Doak]

Cristian:

I played a great example of a strategic but fairly narrow course today -- El Saler.

Arana did two important things.

First, he set most of the fairways and greens at a slight angle, to favor a draw or a fade.  Usually, he favored a draw off the tee and a fade into the green.

So, second, this pattern rewards the player who can hug the left side of the fairway, setting himself up for an easier angle for the second shot.  It doesn't matter whether the fairway is narrow, or wide, as long as being closest to the left edge is the best play.  Indeed, the narrowness gives you MORE reward for staying left so you don't have to hit your second shot out of the rough from a bad angle.

[Mac Plumart]

Can't you add strategy and interest to almost any hole by creating interesting greens and green complexes?

First off start with greens that have interesting undulations and at least two tiers.  This should create ideal targets and landing areas for approaches.  Once the golfers know what spot to approach the green from for each pin position, then you've got interest and strategy for the tee shot.

If you want to add in more strategy and interest on the approach add in a creek or a deep bunker in front of the green.

To jack up the difficulty and interest you could add in a false front to the green that feeds into that creek or bunker.

And you could shell back the greens to kick a players when he is down...so to speak.

But if you've got lots of holes with narrow corridors, you could take the above ideas and create a mix and match of the ideas for about 6 or 7 holes.

Am I nuts on this or just stupid?

[Will Peterson]

I had a similar thought when playing Big Foot CC, Lake Geneva, WI, this fall.

The 5th hole, Grand Canyon, is a short par 4, 350/329/317, played from an elevated tee into a very narrow corridor flanked by a large hill on the right and thick trees on the left.  There are no bunkers on the hole, and the green is somewhat severe with a large backstop.  A miss long or to the right will create an incredibly difficult pitch.  Pins on the left can be accessed by using the slope on the green.

The green is not the one visible on the right.  It is just to the left and much shorter than that green.  It appears that you could go straight down the right center, but it is not much more than 200 to the hill.  On that line you would need to hit something 185ish which would leave over 160 in.



A variety of clubs could be used off the tee.  The more risk taken off the tee will allow for a significantly easier second if the tee shot is executed properly.

Shot from the fairway about 150 out.




Right side of fairway about 50 out.  The ball was my drive.  It was hit down the left tree line and hooked about 20 yards to get to the far right side of the fairway near the green.  You can also see the slope of the green to the left.  Even without a bunker, the green complex is interesting and creates a number of possible leaves for missed greens.




Shot looking back from front of green.  The tee would be nearly in line with the holes in the trees on the right of the picture.




I liked this hole, and found it required a lot of thinking and could be approached in a number of ways.  It is also very penal.  A miss can result in a penalty, lost ball on the hill, or an extremely difficult or nearly impossible recovery.

Could this be considered a strategic hole?  Is it just penal?  It would be a lot more difficult for the higher handicap player, and does not really allow for an alternate route. 

[Norbert P]

"Could this be considered a strategic hole?  Is it just penal?  It would be a lot more difficult for the higher handicap player, and does not really allow for an alternate route."    Will Peterson

Will, fine example.  I would put this hole into the strategic school.  Also, from that first picture it looks to have a very wide fairway for the short hitter. Is there a direct line to the green from way right in the fairway or do the trees negate that option?

BTW, the tree clump behind the green is a very cool display.
 

 

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