Champions Columbus on the block.

[Dub_ONeill]

There is a story in the Columbus paper this morning that the city owned Champions Golf Club is being shopped for sale.  It has been mentioned here as one of the best public options in Columbus and is a wonderful old layout.  It is sort of the crown jewel of the city owned courses in Columbus. I thought the most interesting quote in the story was:
"Champions is considered the most challenging city course, according to Recreation and Parks Director Alan McKnight, and draws fewer golfers as a result."
Somehow I always thought it worked just the opposite of this statement.  Is this the way it works most places?

[Jeff_Brauer]

Dub,

Good question but I hear that all the time from the pros and supers in the trenches.  For that matter, see the exhange between Lou Duran and I on the Wachesaw thread regarding greens contours and members opinions of those that are too difficult.  The public side is no different, or worse. 

I was at a course yesterday, and theme of the conversation was that they would get more play if the course wasn't percieved as too difficult.  As one of my former associates says so aptly on his web site, "Golf shoud be enjoyed, not endured."  Melvyn will chime in soon!

Most golf courses think/know their popularity hinges on golfers being able to shoot about their normal score.  You can lose some golfers rounds by being too easy, but you lose them pretty quickly if you beat them up.

Please note this applies for local, everyday courses. When golfers go away, they certainly want to play something different, and expect more challenge as long as the course also has superior maintenance and aesthetics. 

[jeffwarne]

There is a story in the Columbus paper this morning that the city owned Champions Golf Club is being shopped for sale.  It has been mentioned here as one of the best public options in Columbus and is a wonderful old layout.  It is sort of the crown jewel of the city owned courses in Columbus. I thought the most interesting quote in the story was:
"Champions is considered the most challenging city course, according to Recreation and Parks Director Alan McKnight, and draws fewer golfers as a result."
Somehow I always thought it worked just the opposite of this statement.  Is this the way it works most places?

Difficult public courses often do well in the beginning because people want to see them......once.
Once the rounds get long and unenjoyable they will return to their familiar, perhaps more fun course.
Additionally, "challenging" is often a euphemism for poor design (although in this case I wouldn't know)

[RJ_Daley]

When it comes to public golfers, muni or just local open to public, I still think it is not just an issue of driving some customers away with a hard golf course.  I think it is in the manner of presentation that makes it hard.  I believe that most mid to high handicaps will stay away from a course that is too narrow, bordered by too thick or impossible rough.  And, they get tired of courses with a lot of water and woods-underbrush where they loose their balls constantly, or are looking on too many holes, thus slowing up the round and making it an expensive death march.  

But, I think that if it is just resistence to scoring due to challenging contours, interesting and varied greens of fast but not impossible speeds, and good bunkering with decent sand, then if the course is harder, it doesn't drive people away, it draws them.  If they can be challenged but not frustrated because they find their errant balls, and have a recovery shot with expected penalty for the wayward ball, they like that, I believe.  

But, the average golfer paying 25-50 for the round, doesn't want to spend half again that much on lost balls, on a long round due to hunting in rough or underbrush.  I think the mantra should be;  keep'em challenged, keep'em entertained, keep'em moving, let'em keep their balls.

[Steve Lang]

  Being an old past Ohio boy, I'd simply add that among my buddies there in NW Ohio we used to have a strong bias to location, then availability or price, then to other qualitative factors that the gca.com crowd follows..  the older we got, the more availability took the lead..

The publics can get quite crowded with ordinary folks and kids learning the game, having fun outdoors.. difficulty doesn't bring on fun unless you've got some masochistic tendencies..

[Billsteele]

I think Steve is spot on with his analysis of the typical Ohio golfer. Champions is a terrific golf course in what has become a not so terrific neighborhood. The transitional status of the area is the reason why Winding Hollow Country Club relocated and sold the golf course to the City of Columbus. It is  located in an area that strikes me as not having a large golfing population but those golfers who do live there would rather drive 10 minutes and play Minerva Park for $20 or nine holes at Bridgeview for less than $15 rather than Champions for $35. I am amazed that Champions has only lost an average of $180,000 a year over the last two years. If you go to Champions during the week, play is sparse other than the afternoon leagues. The weekends are pretty busy but that alone cannot sustain a profit. The other city golf courses have lower greens fees (with the possible exception of Turnberry) and are located in areas with more golfers. I know that last year three courses lost money (Champions, Walnut Hill and Turnberry). I would be interested to know why the city is only placing Champions on the market.

[Lou_Duran]

Bill,

Location x 3.  It was already a dangerous area in the 1970s, on par with the near east side.  I never played it, but the par 3 over a ravine along the main street seemed real interesting.

Who/what type of buyer is likely to buy it and for how much?

If it is like most real estate in low-income, minority areas, the return will have to be considerable to offset the security, lower revenues, and higher investment risk factors.  Ironically, this may be the type of course that only government might be able to operate on behalf of an economically sensitive golfing segment.

[Dean DiBerardino]

Lou:

Someone told me recently that the land may be worth some money given its close proximity to Easton Town Center, which is just to the East of Champions.  Could the city be looking to cash-in on the property?

I have not played the golf course in at least ten years but would like to get back and play it again whether it is closing or not.  It's a really nice golf course on a great piece of land.

[Billsteele]

Lou-There have always been two theories about potential buyers. The first was to a real estate developer. It is zoned for housing and there are no restrictive covenants in the deed. However, I do not see anything other than low income housing fitting the area and its surrounds. The chain link fence which separates the 13th green and 14th tee from subsidized apartments tells you most of what you need to know about the area. When it was first opened as a City course, I played a round with one of my buddies who was a Columbus police officer. He told the starter that he needed to run back to his car to get his gun for the round (since some Winding Hollow members had been robbed on the golf course). The starter didn't bat an eye and only asked him to keep it out of sight.
The second scenario that has been floated is that Les Wexner (founder of The Limited) might buy it and somehow tie it in to Easton, his upscale shopping area which is a couple of miles away and can be seen from the 13th tee. While that does not seem likely, he is the type of owner (aside from a municipality) that could keep it going for a while with his deep pockets and see if the profitability could be turned around.
The hole you are talking about is the 10th and it is a good one with a downhill tee shot over the ravine and a green with a pronounced slope which falls away in front and on the right. There are a number of good holes and interesting greens on the course. It would be a shame to lose it.

[Billsteele]

Dean-I did not see your post before I responded to Lou. The course was purchased for $2 million in 1988 and is valued at $3.7 million now by the county auditor. So your theory of a cash grab may have some validity.  The City of Columbus is in horrible financial shape with essential services facing cuts and and police and fire unions agreeing to givebacks. It is difficult in these circumstances for the City to justify an endeavor which has lost money for the past two years. The municipally operated golf courses are self sustaining. Even with Champions in the red, they expect to make $300,000 overall this year. Without Champions that number would probably jump to about $500,000 and the city would also see a quick $3-4 million if the sale goes through.

[Lou_Duran]

Bill,

At $30,000 per usable acre (WAG), it seems like an extremely high price for that location.  High-end retail in the hood doen't sound right.  Perhaps Schottensteins.  Isn't Wexner the money behind that highly exclusive north Columbus course whose name escapes me (Weiskopf design, long pants only)?  If so, and he hasn't been hurt too badly yet, maybe he can do an East Lake (ATL) type of development.

[Dean DiBerardino]

Lou:

I think the name of the club you're looking for is Double Eagle, which was founded/funded by the late John McConnell of Worthington Industries.

[Ryan DeMay]

Lou,

Les Wexner built and currently owns New Albany Country Club (Nicklaus) in, you guessed it, New Albany.  I believe you are thinking of Double Eagle with which Mr. Wexner purportedly had a little tiff and decided to build his own place nearer to his home.  As to whether he would buy it or not is a guess on anyone's part.  The proximity to the Easton developmentv certainly makes the property desirable, golf course or no golf course.  If there were some way to reconfigure the entrance to the east side of the property, closer to Easton, then perhaps the golf course could still exist as is without the perceived threat of Westerville Road.  Although for 8 months out of the year it would be a hell of an option for us guys who are dragged to the mall with our significant others.  

I think Bill is correct in saying that this is definitely a situation of price point versus location.  The people who live close by don't want to pay that kind of money to play golf and the people who would pay that money live too far away and/or don't want to drive through the neighborhood to get there.  It really is an unfortunate situation because Columbus really has few solid public options that offer value for the money.  Hopefully someone with good intentions will scoop this up at a bargain price and make the best of it.

[Lou_Duran]

Thanks guys.  Double Eagle is the one I was thinking of.  Now I can see the connection to Weiskopf.  He and Fritz Schmidt, an executive with Worthington back in the 1970s, were friendly.  I haven't heard anything about New Albany CC.  Is it super-exclusive or just not that notable?

[Tom MacWood]

Champions was formerly Winding Hollow, the first and only Jewish golf club in Columbus. The original nine was built by Herbert Strong in the 20s and RTJ added the second nine very early in his career. The course has a Stanley Thompson feel to it. Of all the golf courses in the city of Columbus, including Scioto, Brookside, Columbus CC and OSU, IMO the old Winding Hollow is the best site.

When the neighborhood became too rough Winding Hollow sold the course and moved to a new Art Hills course near New Albany.  Unfortunately the combination of the new course being mediocre and the new luxurious New Albany CC stealing members killed Winding Hollow, and as a result the one historically Jewish country club in Columbus is no more.

If Champions is lost it would be a great loss to Columbus IMO; it is one of the best courses in a city known for very good courses.

[Lou_Duran]

TMac,

While it was before my time, wasn't there a "Stonybrook CC" (sp) on the far east side that was Jewish?  I think it may have had 36 holes, and it eventually failed.  I tended bar for a catering service which bought the clubhouse, and I think the city or the county took over the golf course (s), which, in the 1970s at least, was called Blacklick Woods (?).  I lost count on the number of Bar Mitzvahs and Jewish weddings I served.  Great fun.  Never played the course, but it looked like it had some good topography.

What do you know of New Albany CC?