President's Putter at Rye - Golf Digest Article

[John Mayhugh]

The December Golf Digest has an article describing the President's Putter, an annual match between Oxford & Cambridge alumni at Rye.  Typical weather conditions for this event sound pretty challenging.

I am surprised that the author didn't bother mentioning Rye is a two-ball club.  For a largely American readership, that would seem notable.   There is a brief paragraph about Colt & Rye that could have been a bit more complete.  Hopefully I don't seem too picky.  It's nice to see articles like this instead of some instructional piece on how to hit a hit a bunker shot.
http://www.golfdigest.com/magazine/2009/12/presidents_putter_john_barton

There is an additional slide show of photos.  I like the pics of the bitterly cold course a lot, but takes too long to page through and they are way too small.  The GD website encourages me to use that acronym in a different manner.
http://www.golfdigest.com/courses/2009/12/photos_presidentsputter

[Mark Pritchett]

I enjoyed the article.  Thanks for posting.  

With regards to Rye being a "two ball" club, I was wondering what other clubs in England are "two ball".  

[Bill_McBride]

I enjoyed the article.  Thanks for posting.  

With regards to Rye being a "two ball" club, I was wondering what other clubs in England are "two ball".  

Royal St Georges, Deal and Muirfield (at times) come to mind.

[Mark Chaplin]

Royal West Norfolk, Royal Worlington (some 3/4 ball), West Sussex

Two club courses such as Sunningdale, Walton Heath and The Berkshire always have a 2 ball course.

[Scott Warren]

John, I think this same artcile is the one in this month's UK Golf World. I agree with you on the strange Colt line. I recall it as "many say Rye is still his best work". Except that almost all of it is gone. But apart from that...

Good yarn though.

[John Mayhugh]

John, I think this same artcile is the one in this month's UK Golf World. I agree with you on the strange Colt line. I recall it as "many say Rye is still his best work". Except that almost all of it is gone. But apart from that...

Good yarn though.

That's the section.  The author also talks about Colt designing Pine Valley.  Maybe left out a few other names. 

[John Mayhugh]

Royal West Norfolk, Royal Worlington (some 3/4 ball), West Sussex

Two club courses such as Sunningdale, Walton Heath and The Berkshire always have a 2 ball course.

Aren't there quite a few others that are primarily two ball, but four ball is permitted on certain days?  If I remember correctly, I think Littlestone falls into that category?

[Giles Payne]

Huntercombe is still primarily a two ball course. There are quite a number of the older traditional clubs that remain but have special arrangements for societies.

[Andrew Mitchell]

John

Thnaks for posting.  It looks a lot colder in those pictures than when we were there in September!

[John Mayhugh]

John

Thnaks for posting.  It looks a lot colder in those pictures than when we were there in September!

I bet the frosty course looks great from the windows in the clubhouse.

[JC Jones]

That's the section.  The author also talks about Colt designing Pine Valley.  Maybe left out a few other names. 

Was it written by Jim Colton?

[Bill_McBride]

In Herbert Warren Wind's collection of New Yorker essays, "Following Through," there's an excellent account of his visit to the President's Putter in 1972.  It's worth the purchase of the book.  Apparently that was an unusually warm January, with only some frost on the fairways and nothing more than a normally fierce wind blowing off the Channel.   The current President's comment on the weather was, "Very disappointing weather.  Warmest day we've had for the Putter since '58.  We must all learn to take the bitter with the sweet."

[Andrew Mitchell]

In Herbert Warren Wind's collection of New Yorker essays, "Following Through," there's an excellent account of his visit to the President's Putter in 1972.  It's worth the purchase of the book.  Apparently that was an unusually warm January, with only some frost on the fairways and nothing more than a normally fierce wind blowing off the Channel.   The current President's comment on the weather was, "Very disappointing weather.  Warmest day we've had for the Putter since '58.  We must all learn to take the bitter with the sweet."

When I read the Golf World article last night I thought I'd read another account of the President's Putter meeting but couldn't think where.  Thanks for reminding me Bill!  I've got "Following Through" which is an excellent read as it also contains his Dornoch essay.

[Mark Chaplin]

I believe The Putter has only been cancelled once since the war due to snow. Anyone who has enjoyed Rye would appreciate the club history, one of the best I've read.

[JMEvensky]

Huntercombe is still primarily a two ball course. There are quite a number of the older traditional clubs that remain but have special arrangements for societies.

I apologize if this is a dumb question but when you say "X is a 2-ball course",do you mean that only alternate shot is allowed?If 4 members show up to play,can they never play their own golf ball?

[Mark Chaplin]

They can split and play 2 two balls or remain as a four and play alternate shot. Whilst that may seem barmy to many you get quick rounds and two ball clubs are popular with traditionalists. Jacket and tie tends to be the norm as is proper lunch.

[Kalen Braley]

They can split and play 2 two balls or remain as a four and play alternate shot. Whilst that may seem barmy to many you get quick rounds and two ball clubs are popular with traditionalists. Jacket and tie tends to be the norm as is proper lunch.

Mark,

The only thing I don't understand is, wouldn't a 4 some all playing thier own ball, all playing in the same group be just as fast as two twosomes playing thier own ball in two seperate groups?  If the 4 some has to split to occupy two different tee times, seems to defeat the purpose.

[Mark Pearce]

They can split and play 2 two balls or remain as a four and play alternate shot. Whilst that may seem barmy to many you get quick rounds and two ball clubs are popular with traditionalists. Jacket and tie tends to be the norm as is proper lunch.

Mark,

The only thing I don't understand is, wouldn't a 4 some all playing thier own ball, all playing in the same group be just as fast as two twosomes playing thier own ball in two seperate groups?  If the 4 some has to split to occupy two different tee times, seems to defeat the purpose.

Kalen,

They will take far longer to get round the course.  Try it someday.  I reckon a 2 ball, playing reasonably competitively, can get round my home course in about 3 hours.  A 4-ball is pushed to do it in 3 and 3/4 hours.  My father in law is a member at HCEG and he expects a foursome (alternate shot) to take not much more than 2 1/2 hours.  He does play very quickly, though, which I think is common with members of 2-ball only clubs.

[JMEvensky]

They can split and play 2 two balls or remain as a four and play alternate shot. Whilst that may seem barmy to many you get quick rounds and two ball clubs are popular with traditionalists. Jacket and tie tends to be the norm as is proper lunch.

Thanks.Not barmy so much as just different from what I'm used to.

If that's what their membership likes,more power to them.People who don't like 4-some golf can join other places.

[JMEvensky]

They can split and play 2 two balls or remain as a four and play alternate shot. Whilst that may seem barmy to many you get quick rounds and two ball clubs are popular with traditionalists. Jacket and tie tends to be the norm as is proper lunch.

Mark,

The only thing I don't understand is, wouldn't a 4 some all playing thier own ball, all playing in the same group be just as fast as two twosomes playing thier own ball in two seperate groups?  If the 4 some has to split to occupy two different tee times, seems to defeat the purpose.

Kalen,

They will take far longer to get round the course.  Try it someday.  I reckon a 2 ball, playing reasonably competitively, can get round my home course in about 3 hours.  A 4-ball is pushed to do it in 3 and 3/4 hours.  My father in law is a member at HCEG and he expects a foursome (alternate shot) to take not much more than 2 1/2 hours.  He does play very quickly, though, which I think is common with members of 2-ball only clubs.

Agreed--2 2-balls will lap 1 4-ball.

I guess it just depends where you fall on the "fast golf" versus "social golf" debate as to which one is preferred.2-balls are faster but 4-balls usually have more fun;assuming groups of friends.

[Sean_A]

Kalen

Mark is right.  All things being equal, even two slow 2balls should beat a 4ball.  This is the primary reason 2ball clubs exist - speed of play.  Though, some of these clubs are submitting to the lure of the visitor cash and have opened 4ball days.  I spose you just get used to it - though I would like the option of 4ball sometimes during prime time.  

At Burnham we have slots for 2, 3 and 4 ball play.  I think at the moment 2 balls are up to 9:45ish, 2-3 balls up to 12ish and 2-4 balls after 12ish.  To get round in the winter as a 4ball means you have to haul ass.  Members try to stick to it.  For instance, if its 3ball time, few want to go out as a 2ball because they know they could be held up.  All this said, a member can get permission from the secretary for 4balls during 3ball time if things are quiet - meaning no comps or matches on.  I like this system, but I can understand the American view of not having so many rules at leisure club.  The Brits are a bit rule heavy which is a drag.

Ciao

[Kalen Braley]

I guess the more I think about it, that sounds about right guys.  It would seem a big time savings could be had around the greens where 2 players could chip and putt out much quicker than 4.

I stand corrected!!   

[Mark Chaplin]

A foursome will normally take 3 hours including a 10-15 minute stop in the hut.

Foursomes is a team game play because it IS socialable, it is not an excuse to gallop around the course and disappear. I would say it is the ultimate apre lunch game to walk off the wine prior to driving home. 

[Jim_Kennedy]

Coupled with the natural extra time needed on the tees and around the hole for people to get out of the way before the next guy can play, the difference in time wasted waiting for 1 cheater line ditherer and 1 pre-shot seance vs. 3 cheater line ditherers and 3 pre-shot seances is somewhere in the neighborhood of 45 minutes, in my experience. 

At least 45 mins.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Mark,
I can play as a single at a two-ball club, correct? Can two players go out, playing only one ball?


edit: never mind, I read back and saw the answer.