[Matt Bosela]

45 minutes for the first two holes, and you only finished 12 holes in 4 hours?!  Wow. 

I don't know if it was just bad luck that day.  I was hoping it was just one or two slow groups but when I drove the rest of the back nine to get some photos, there were at least three groups on every par four and five.  Again, having only played Tobiano once, I can't say it's always that slow out there but I have to believe the severity of the course makes it almost impossible to finish in four hours if the tee sheet is filled.

And that day, it would have likely taken six hours to get 18 in, which is just unacceptable. 

[Stu Grant]

Would Tobiano and Wolf Creek, NV fall in the same category???

Incredible land, incredible views.....but a very penal golf course?

Visually I think this is a great comparison.  I played Tobiano twice in 2008 and again in 2009, and played Wolf Creek in 2008. 

From a difficulty/penal standpoint, Wolf Creek is far more severe.  When I played it they didn't even allow anyone to play beyond the 6,300 tee deck and it still took nearly six hours to play.  I'm an 8 handicap and got absolutely destroyed by that golf course.  Meanwhile all 3 times I've played Tobiano I've shot in the low-to-mid 80s.

Number seven is the hole that really stands out to me as highly difficult at Tobiano, especially when the wind is up. 

One change I noticed from 2008 to 2009 was that they moved the "Spur" tee decks up on a few of the holes to make the course more playable...a good call.

[Matt Bosela]

I decided to bump this thread for the benefit of the guys travelling to British Columbia in less than two weeks for Bob Jenkins' GCA outing at Sagebrush, figuring a number of guys will likely make the hour long drive north to Kamloops to play Tobiano at some point during their stay.

I just returned from five days of golf in the Okanagan, including three full days at Sagebrush, one round at the new Ridge Course at Predator Ridge and one full day and 36 holes at Tobiano.

I travelled with three friends who were anxious to see Tobiano and to be honest, my first impression made last year that the course was just too tough and not a lot of fun held true for our second round.  We're all decent sticks but holes like #7 and #8 are almost too much from the back tees, with huge forced carries, blind shots into 20 yard landing areas that slope toward a cliff and many other extreme challenges.

Our second round that day was played from the 'Spur' tees, essentially the middle tees measuring about 6700 yards or so - the course was much more playable and fun from those tees and I'd strongly recommend that all players, regardless of handicap, start from tees no longer than those ones for their first round to maintain your sanity.

I'm at least happy to report that pace of play was much better this year than last, although most of that is due to a slow day at the course - we started our first round under dark, ominous skies which opened up by the time we reached the par five 10th.  We tried to wait it out on the fairway for 20 minutes but the rain kept coming down so we took a lunch break and returned to a pretty empty course an hour later.  The sun would come out late in our first round and provided some stunning photos, some of which I've included below.

No photoshopping done to these at all - what you see is what you get when you're out there.  It's visually stunning but a course you'll likely be satisfied to play one time and never return due to the difficulty.

1st Tee


Landing Area on 1st Hole


Uphill Third Shot on 1st Hole


View from Right of 1st Green, with Lake Kamloops and mountains in Background


2nd Tee, a driveable par four


Approach shot on 2nd


5th Tee, a glorious hole


Approach Shot on the 5th


6th Tee


Uphill Approach on 6th to plateau green


View of the 7th Green in Foreground and 8th Fairway in Background


7th Tee, a 193 yard par 3, with a full carry over a 100+ foot cliff to a green only 29 yards deep


14th Tee, a fun hole and maybe the best photo in my collection now!


Approach to the great 14th Hole


15th Tee, a great postcard par 3


16th Tee looking toward Lake Kamloops


18th Tee, with 16th Fairway in Background

[John Mayhugh]

Interesting shot tracker on the photo from the 14th tee!

[Will MacEwen]

Matt,

Thanks for another photo-essay, even if it took a year to complete.

I know you are a good player, and I find your comments about how tough the course is to be interesting.  It seems like the only person who hasn't had that observation is Robert Thompson.  I still haven't made it up there (had a fall trip fall through), but I'm not in a great hurry because I keep hearing that it is a brute.  The fact that you think most people would be one and done is quite something.

It looks fairly green (but so did Sagebrush as I recall) - was it playing nice a firm?

[Mark McKeever]

It looks like a lot of "all or nothing" shots.  Great pictures and thanks for sharing!

Mark

[Bob Jenkins]

Matt,

It looks as though you guys did get a break from the wind, which is often ranging between 20 - 30 mph and makes it even more difficult. That 7th hole is ridiculous in the wind.

Agree with you on the 5th. It is special and one hole I would like to play again but I have no plans to go back. For you to find it difficult means it crazy difficult for the rest of us bums. But it certainly is pretty!

[Matt Bosela]

Matt,

Thanks for another photo-essay, even if it took a year to complete.

I know you are a good player, and I find your comments about how tough the course is to be interesting.  It seems like the only person who hasn't had that observation is Robert Thompson.  I still haven't made it up there (had a fall trip fall through), but I'm not in a great hurry because I keep hearing that it is a brute.  The fact that you think most people would be one and done is quite something.

It looks fairly green (but so did Sagebrush as I recall) - was it playing nice a firm?

Will,

I need to talk to Robert about Tobiano the next time I play golf with him - I have seen his comments about it not being difficult and I find that hard to believe - Rob is a long player off the tee but he'll admit, not the straightest!  I found the fairways to be too narrow and the slopes are quite severe in spots toward the cliffsides, especially on holes like #8 and #13.  Of course, the biggest problem are the numerous forced carries and the fescue has matured to the point where most shots are almost unplayable except with a wedge.

All of that said, I would still strongly suggest that most GCA'ers check the place out if they are in the area but I'd be surprised if there are more than a handful who would want to seek it out multiple times.

It's really lush out there and I'd say it's firmer than average but it doesn't even remotely compare to Sagebrush in that regard.  It definitely requires a top-notch aerial game.

PS: A year to complete the thread?  Haha - it was done in December...just thought I'd bump it up with some new photos!  The Sand Hills thread may take a year though!

[Matt Bosela]

Matt,

It looks as though you guys did get a break from the wind, which is often ranging between 20 - 30 mph and makes it even more difficult. That 7th hole is ridiculous in the wind.

Agree with you on the 5th. It is special and one hole I would like to play again but I have no plans to go back. For you to find it difficult means it crazy difficult for the rest of us bums. But it certainly is pretty!

Bob,

You are right, we were very fortunate to play in relatively calm conditions at Tobiano.  It was much windier in the morning as the storm was coming in but once it blew through, we played in very benign conditions and our scores in the PM round reflected that!

[mike_malone]

 Bob Jenkins,

     If you said you were "blown away" by this course it would be easier for them to use in their marketing piece

[Rob Miller]

Matt,

Thanks for the photos.  Excellent contribution.   

I've only played once. In that round I managed to score my lowest round ever despite playing from the tips and managing the last two holes in total darkness.  I suppose that makes my opinion of the course a bit biased, but I'm still going to hold onto a favorable opinion about the course.

I recall it being difficult with quite a few forced carries but I wouldn't classify it as overly penal.  My wife would say it is much easier than  Royal County Down.  Maybe playing again when the housing complexes are built and a two club wind and inconsistent game makes life miserable, I might come around to the criticism. 

[Stu Grant]

I've played Tobiano once in 2008 and then again in 2009.  The concerns about it being too difficult from the "Spur" tees were largely addressed upon my second visit as a result of adding a "Tour" set of tees and reducing some of the forced carries for the average to better-than-average golfer who would frequent the 6600-yard tee deck.

2008 tees:
IRON - 7328 yards
SPUR - 6835 yards
LAKE - 6241 yards
SAGE - 5289 yards

2009 tees:
TOUR - 7367 yards
IRON - 7110 yards
SPUR - 6616 yards
LAKE - 6109 yards
SAGE - 5358 yards

Much of the improvement here was made on two critical forced carry shots, that being the tee-shot on the par-3 12th hole and the tee-shot on the par-5 13th hole. 

The 12th was formerly 232 yards from the second-to-back SPUR tees, but has been moved up to 149 yards from the now third-to-back SPUR tees making this hole much more manageable for the 7-12 handicapper.

Meanwhile, the 13th formerly required a difficult carry of over 200 yards against the prevailing wind from the SPUR tees, whereas they have now reduced this hole by 80 yards from this tee deck.

Overall, I really enjoy this golf course and would be happy to play it again, although ideally I’d play it early in the a.m. before the play gets too slow.

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