[Giles Payne]

Mark

"The British tabloids are an utter disgrace - the Telegraph excepted.  The Daily Mail was, up to the mid 1990s, a reasonable tome in comparison with its rancid brethren.  Unfortunately, now it is more concerned with hysterical accounts of the danger in using buttock fat to make cheese with, Posh Spice's recipe tips for making a single leaf of rocket into a gourmet feast, and promoting Katie Price as a role model for British youth."

I think that other Mark may be referring to the fact that the Telegraph is not a tabloid as implied by your post. It is one of the broadsheets - and one of only two national daily newspaper printed in this format along with the Guardian.

The Mail and the Telegraph both represent the right wing side of journalism but to lump them together as tabloids is quite a long way off the mark.  The Daily Mail is certainly full of celebrity trash and has a particular audience in middle England but it is not considered one of the worst of the tabloids.

[Scott Warren]

Scott

What is your (honest) opinion of Londoners and London living?

Congrats on your engagement by the way.  

See you at Woking.

Robin

Thanks Robin, Woking should be great - I'm already excited!

Londoners and London living? Depends which day you ask me!

I find Londoners quite impersonal, which I suppose isn't surprising given it's a huge city. Very, very serious in the workplace compared to back home, too.

But on the flip side, you have people who when asked for directions will walk you there so you don't get lost, or the Indian guy who runs the off-license at the end of my street and chats away about cricket to me for 15-20mins when I duck in to buy some milk...

I suppose it's hard to give Londoners one label, because they are such a varied lot. But the difference between city people and country people here is definitely much greater than in Australia.

London living isn't too bad. I just pick and choose the parts of town to visit, and given my office is opposite Hyde Park and I live in a pretty green area full of commons and stuff I am generally able to avoid the feeling of living in a concrete jungle.

The best thing about London is the proximity to Europe, which gives you the opportunity to, for example, get on the train after work on a Friday and eat dinner that night in Paris or Bruges. For all the awesome golf experiences I've had over here, I've had easily as many awesome non-golf travel experiences - it's a pretty special place and I do feel a bit ungrateful when I moan about it.

[Mark Pearce]

Mark,

As Giles points out, the Telegraph is NOT a tabloid, even on the pedantically correct size criterion.  You are ranting with all the authority of a Daily Sport editorial.

It has a tabloid sport section but the paper itself is not.  In any event, the Telegraph is almost as bad (and I'll disagree with Giles here) as the Mail for salacious content, it just presents it in a way that might appeal more to it's more elderly, more upper class readership, so why you chose to exclude it (and not the Times which, for all the damage caused to it by Murdoch is not as salacious as the Telegraph) is beyond me.  If you wanted to exclude a tabloid it might have made sense had you gone for the Independent which is far too dull to be salacious.  

[Scott Warren]

Mark P: well said. And at least the Daily Sport editorial usually has some boobs close by! Mark F is bringing nothing more to the table than a fully formed opinion built on a half-arsed understanding/knowledge of the papers.

But he did offer us this, which made me chuckle!

No, no, no.  My god, if you soaked a roll of Sorbent overnight in maple syrup and baked it, it would have a better flavour and texture than the "bread" that thing was wrapped in.  And a hint just in case you get shifted to the restaurant review section - the only thing that is supposed to glow like that piece of cheese is fissionable uranium - not food.

When we have our first game together on the Sandbelt, we can make a stop at Richmond Hill Cafe and Larder on the way, pick up some air-freighted European cheese made from raw cows milk and have a picnic with a nice baguette or two beneath the trees.

We're not worthy!

[Sean_A]

Scott

What is your (honest) opinion of Londoners and London living?

Congrats on your engagement by the way.  

See you at Woking.

Robin

Thanks Robin, Woking should be great - I'm already excited!

Londoners and London living? Depends which day you ask me!

I find Londoners quite impersonal, which I suppose isn't surprising given it's a huge city. Very, very serious in the workplace compared to back home, too.

But on the flip side, you have people who when asked for directions will walk you there so you don't get lost, or the Indian guy who runs the off-license at the end of my street and chats away about cricket to me for 15-20mins when I duck in to buy some milk...

I suppose it's hard to give Londoners one label, because they are such a varied lot. But the difference between city people and country people here is definitely much greater than in Australia.

London living isn't too bad. I just pick and choose the parts of town to visit, and given my office is opposite Hyde Park and I live in a pretty green area full of commons and stuff I am generally able to avoid the feeling of living in a concrete jungle.

The best thing about London is the proximity to Europe, which gives you the opportunity to, for example, get on the train after work on a Friday and eat dinner that night in Paris or Bruges. For all the awesome golf experiences I've had over here, I've had easily as many awesome non-golf travel experiences - it's a pretty special place and I do feel a bit ungrateful when I moan about it.

Scott

One of my dearest mates used to live in London and he used to bitch right along with me about the place.  I always said that London is a great place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there unless I had a massive disposable income and at least one property in the country.  That said, if you are into big city living, London is very difficult to beat.  My mate acknowledges this now that he lives in Budapest.

Ciao

[Scott Warren]

I think you're 100% right, Sean. My missus and I often say that if we had tolive here full-time, there is no way we would be in the city.

If I had a choice of anywhere to live, I'd be torn between a farm just outside Canterbury or somewhere around Stroud, which has to be the most beautiful countryside I have seen in Britain. Obviously the latter wouldn't really be an option if you worked in town.

[Mark Pearce]

I think you're 100% right, Sean. My missus and I often say that if we had tolive here full-time, there is no way we would be in the city.

If I had a choice of anywhere to live, I'd be torn between a farm just outside Canterbury or somewhere around Stroud, which has to be the most beautiful countryside I have seen in Britain. Obviously the latter wouldn't really be an option if you worked in town.

Sean,

It's lovely around Stroud.  But if it's the most beautiful countryside you have seen in Britain you need to get to the Lakes, the Northumberland coast, the west coast of Scotland, the Pennines and the Highlands, for starters.

[Sean_A]

I think you're 100% right, Sean. My missus and I often say that if we had tolive here full-time, there is no way we would be in the city.

If I had a choice of anywhere to live, I'd be torn between a farm just outside Canterbury or somewhere around Stroud, which has to be the most beautiful countryside I have seen in Britain. Obviously the latter wouldn't really be an option if you worked in town.

Sean,

It's lovely around Stroud.  But if it's the most beautiful countryside you have seen in Britain you need to get to the Lakes, the Northumberland coast, the west coast of Scotland, the Pennines and the Highlands, for starters.

Mark

Not me - Scott!  If I worked in London I would try to find a way to live very close to Oxford.  The countryside and villages in the area are lovely and Oxford has enough going on that its worth living near. 

Just to continue the questions, has anyone ever told you that Scotty Warren is great 70s hockey (proper hockey - not that stuff on grass) name? 

Ciao

[Scott Warren]

Mark,

In July we drove Edinburgh > St Andrews > Inverness > Oban > Edinburgh and I can't say the scenery, other than on the Inverness > Oban leg, really did all that much for me.

Sean,

As in there was an ice hockey player in the 70s named Scotty Warren? Or that it's just the kind of name that belongs in that era?!

EDIT - apparently someone with my name invented a hybrid ice hockey/lacrosse game called "icecrosse"...

[Mark Pearce]

Mark,

In July we drove Edinburgh > St Andrews > Inverness > Oban > Edinburgh and I can't say the scenery, other than on the Inverness > Oban leg, really did all that much for me.

Sean,

As in there was an ice hockey player in the 70s named Scotty Warren? Or that it's just the kind of name that belongs in that era?!

EDIT - apparently someone with my name invented a hybrid ice hockey/lacrosse game called "icecrosse"...

Scott,

Indeed, Inverness to Oban is the only stretch there that I'd expect to do a lot for you.  That will have taken you into the Highlands and possibly a bit of the West Coast.  As a rule of thumb Britain is more beautiful on the West than the East, I guess, though the Northumberland coast is beautiful.

[Sean_A]

Sean

...that it's just the kind of name that belongs in that era?!

Scott

Not just that era, but only for a hockey player.  I can see you flashing that gummy smile (teeth knocked out - not you have a gummy smile - tee hee) with a splattering of blood (not sure whos) on the shoulder!  Yes, you would have been a master with the stick - never drop the gloves.  Hmm, Scotty Stickem' Up Warren would have been your working name.  While I love the game now, there were some great moments from that era that will never die.

Ciao

[Scott Warren]

That's awesome! I will never be that cool, so I'll console myself with that image!

My knowledge of ice hockey is minimal, but I had lunch with Chappers the other day and he pulled out his iPhone and showed me a YouTube clip of a GCAer in the most brutal ice hockey fight I have ever seen. It was brilliant.

[Tony_Muldoon]

As we’re educating Mark F


The bit that made me spit out my pimento and cheese sarnie, is the unofficial GCA ranking that places the Express above ANY other on- line-paper.

Just right now in the Daily Mail online, some of the stories that appear on page one are; Some hirsute reality show judge's painful experience with waxing, Katie Holmes' breathtaking decision to allow her daughter to wear high heels, some bimbo cocktail waitresses claim of an affair with Tiger Woods, and my personal favourite, the one about the former Miss Argentina whose death by buttock implants is surely a cautionary tale on par with anything written by Phliip Dick or William Gibson. The Express, Guardian and Telegraph websites mention only one of those.

If you want a rotten media guy look no further than its current owner.

There’s a biography by Tom Bowyer that he tried to get stopped and it’s absolutely damming.  There are people I know well who were sought out by Bowyer but were too scared to talk to him about Desmond, even off the record.

Try this one.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2005/feb/17/pressandpublishing.dailyexpress

He plays drums in a rock and roll band at society charity do’s, with Roger Daltry singing. It's what makes him a 'philanthropist'.
Hope I die before I get that old.

The Londoner.

[Scott Warren]

Tony,

I also had a chuckle about MF mentioning The Express that way. I had Desmond in mind when I was thinking of people in the industry who make Rupert look like a saint.

Next time we catch up, remind me to tell you a story about him.

[Bill_McBride]

I think you're 100% right, Sean. My missus and I often say that if we had tolive here full-time, there is no way we would be in the city.

If I had a choice of anywhere to live, I'd be torn between a farm just outside Canterbury or somewhere around Stroud, which has to be the most beautiful countryside I have seen in Britain. Obviously the latter wouldn't really be an option if you worked in town.

Sean,

It's lovely around Stroud.  But if it's the most beautiful countryside you have seen in Britain you need to get to the Lakes, the Northumberland coast, the west coast of Scotland, the Pennines and the Highlands, for starters.

And of course Stroud is a few miles down the road from the lovely Cotswolds village of Painswick, home of GCA.com's favorite little course!

In planning my 2010 Buda trip, I actually thinking of a Sept 16 afternoon round at Painswick, the day before the official events kick off at Royal Porthcawl.  Who's interested?

Sorry to thread jack, Scott, I'll post this over on the Buda 2010 thread in due time.

[Mark Woodger]

Congratulations on the engagement Scott. I too got engaged last Wednesday.

I am jealous of the amount of great golf you have got to play since you have been in the UK.

Two questions i have for you:

Are you able to forget/ignore your opinions when working on a newspaper like the Daily Mail? or do you find that sometimes it shapes your opinions?

At Deal - which do you find harder 11 or 12 or 15?

[Andrew Mitchell]

Scott

Congratulations on your engagement.

I'm generally down in London two or three times a year on business. I always look forward to going but I'm always glad to be on the train going home.  If it's countryside you're after get yourself up to Yorkshire - it's not all mills, flat caps, clogs and whippets

What has surprised you most about the golf courses and golf clubs in the UK?

What differences are there between the UK and Australian cultures?

What will you miss most about the UK when you leave?

[Scott Warren]

Congratulations on the engagement Scott. I too got engaged last Wednesday.

Congratulations, Mark!

Are you able to forget/ignore your opinions when working on a newspaper like the Daily Mail? or do you find that sometimes it shapes your opinions?

On every paper I've ever worked, there have been stories that I don't personally agree with. Opinion pieces, it's common and you just accept it. If you think a news story is wrong, unfair or misleading in some way, you argue your case with your boss, sometimes they agree and it gets changed or pulled, sometimes they don't and you just have to suck it up.

I guess I just accept that newspapers are never going to be completely uninterested (as opposed to disinterested) in the news, which is why it's great that a city like London has so many opposing points being made.

Those inclined to can buy, for instance, the Guardian and the Mail and read the alternate views and make up their mind, or alternately - and most people are in this boat - buy the one they agree with and nod a lot while they read things that reinforce why they feel the way they do about certain topics.

I don't think there is anything wrong with a newspaper having an agenda - they all do - because it gives them individual character.

At Deal - which do you find harder 11 or 12 or 15?

12, no question.

11 has always set up pretty well for me, and I find the green one of the easiest on the course - though I played it from up on the sea wall during Buda and it was much more difficult. The fairway bunker feels like much more of the threat from there. I've watched a few people play from up there and almost all have finished in the right rough about 160m out, as opposed to having a 7i or 8i in.

12 just takes my lunch money more often than not, but I love it to death nonetheless. The positioning of the two bunkeres near the green is just perfect, I reckon.

15 is another one that just seems to set up well for me. I birdied it the first time I played it, and I think those first psychological victories and losses can really stick around. It might be because I love blind shots and don't really feel that intimidated by them, but the approach to 15 is one of the easier ones on the course, I think, especially once you realise that missing the green right is infinitely more pleasant than left.

[Bill_McBride]

What about #13?  How's it stack up vs say #12 or #15?  I LOVED those cross bunkers.

[Mark Chaplin]

Scott,

It has been an absolute pleasure meeting you, sharing some good golfing experiences and becoming mates this year. At the danger of losing a mate I have some questions for you!!

You describe Dave Silk - GCA'er and new Deal member - as having a brutal fight during a hockey match. As a respected journalist how would you pen a couple of lines describing this minor disagreement concerning a member of a Royal club??

It is often said the highlight of a young Aussies trip to the UK is seeing his team in Ashes action, how was your Ashes experience??

How many times have you played the 15th at Deal in anger, rumour has it you shake hands earlier??

Kerry is a young, charming and may I say very easy on the eye. Congratulations on your engagement but what does she get out of the deal!!

[Mark Pearce]

How did we allow this thread to get so far without mentioning the Ashes?  How remiss of all the English on here.

Scott,

Would your stay here have been more or less enjoyable if it hadn't been an Ashes summer?  Did you get to any of the games?

[Scott Warren]

You describe Dave Silk - GCA'er and new Deal member - as having a brutal fight during a hockey match. As a respected journalist how would you pen a couple of lines describing this minor disagreement concerning a member of a Royal club??

I wouldn't. I have seen the man destroy another dude the size of a small bear with his fists, while ice skatin! I want no beef with Dave Silk, and as such would be putting that story straight on the spike!

It is often said the highlight of a young Aussies trip to the UK is seeing his team in Ashes action, how was your Ashes experience??

Disappointing! The funny thing was, I was braced for a massive ribbing, but it never came. All my English mates were far too humble! I finally asked them what the go was, and they basically said that England has been shite for so long that they don't feel right being vitriolic in victory!

Finally, about a month ago, I met a former colleague of my missus at some drinks and his first words to me are "How much did it hurt watching your shit team lose the Ashes AGAIN?!" how's that for an introduction?! I asked him - he's in his 40s - how it felt watching his side not win an Ashes series for 20 years.

So yeah, the British are a very polite race, but there are exceptions!

How many times have you played the 15th at Deal in anger, rumour has it you shake hands earlier??

Let's see. First time I played at Deal with you I beat you 4&3 or something, I was just too polite to point that out (all bets are off now that you mentioned the Ashes!). Since then, I generally get beaten 3&2!

Kerry is a young, charming and may I say very easy on the eye. Congratulations on your engagement but what does she get out of the deal!!

Very little. Please, nobody point that out to her!

[mike_malone]

 Scott,

    I look forward to your Philadelphia visit.

[Scott Warren]

Would your stay here have been more or less enjoyable if it hadn't been an Ashes summer?  Did you get to any of the games?

I can't say it would have been too different, to be honest. I didn't go to any of the games and I don't have Sky, so I didn't see a hell of a lot on TV. I mostly only saw what was on when I was at work, so the first session and half of the second on weekdays.

I do remember being at the office for that session where we lost 7 or 8 wickets. I think that was at Birmingham? But again, rather than gloat, I recall my mate across the desk looking up at the scorecard as they went to lunch and just raising his eyebrows, saying "well, England is often involved in matches where 7 wickets fall in a session, but I don't remember the last time it happened and we were bowling!"

The only match I went to was an Aus v WI/NZ v Scotland doubleheader T20 match at The Oval. It was delayed by 90mins, so we were on the sauce with urgency by 9am and I spent half of WI's innings (our match was the second of the day) asleep in a stall in one of the toilets

I woke up and returned to my seat in time to see Gayle hit Lee out of the ground (the ball almost made it to Oval tube station!) and then win the match.

So yeah, not a golden summer of cricket for me!

That afternoon did spawn a great quote, though. A TV journo put it to Ricky Ponting that if the Aussies lost their next game they were out of the tournament and Punter replied with: "Yeah, that's right. It's the ultimate motivation, really. If we lose that match we have to go and spend a week in Leicester preparing for the first test, and trust me - no one wants to spend a week in Leicester!"

[Bill_McBride]

Would your stay here have been more or less enjoyable if it hadn't been an Ashes summer?  Did you get to any of the games?

I can't say it would have been too different, to be honest. I didn't go to any of the games and I don't have Sky, so I didn't see a hell of a lot on TV. I mostly only saw what was on when I was at work, so the first session and half of the second on weekdays.

I do remember being at the office for that session where we lost 7 or 8 wickets. I think that was at Birmingham? But again, rather than gloat, I recall my mate across the desk looking up at the scorecard as they went to lunch and just raising his eyebrows, saying "well, England is often involved in matches where 7 wickets fall in a session, but I don't remember the last time it happened and we were bowling!"

The only match I went to was an Aus v WI/NZ v Scotland doubleheader T20 match at The Oval. It was delayed by 90mins, so we were on the sauce with urgency by 9am and I spent half of WI's innings (our match was the second of the day) asleep in a stall in one of the toilets

I woke up and returned to my seat in time to see Gayle hit Lee out of the ground (the ball almost made it to Oval tube station!) and then win the match.

So yeah, not a golden summer of cricket for me!

That afternoon did spawn a great quote, though. A TV journo put it to Ricky Ponting that if the Aussies lost their next game they were out of the tournament and Punter replied with: "Yeah, that's right. It's the ultimate motivation, really. If we lose that match we have to go and spend a week in Leicester preparing for the first test, and trust me - no one wants to spend a week in Leicester!"

Hey Scott, you might want to keep that sleeping in the toilet stall bit out of the authorized biography! 

Just thinking about your career, young man!

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