Road Hole Tee - New Photos

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Thanks for the photo, it does not appear they blew the budget on the shaping.

[Brett Hochstein]

From behind




From the current championship tee, which has stood that way for over 100 years.  I was wary at first of the tee aesthetically, but I really think it ties in well with the angular geometry of the other tee


The view from the old tee


And from the new--same line but much more visual and mental strain



Cheers

[Michael Blake]

Brett,

What was your involvement with the new tee?

Thanks.

[Brett Hochstein]

Michael,

To be honest, the only actual work I had was some turfing and other finish work, but I have been around and been on the (somewhat) inside throughout the process.  I only get to work there one day a week on a volunteer basis, and mostly there was just no need for an extra body out there on the tee, leaving me to bunker rebuilding, which is just as cool though not as historic.  I was fortunate to meet with Mr. Hawtree when he came up to check it out, and that was a really cool experience for me to listen to his thoughts on the process.

[Bill_McBride]

Take a look at the aerial and see how LITTLE it is affected.....

http://www.standrews.org.uk/golf/the_courses/new_guide2004/new_course_hole_guide_8.html

best,
neffers Mart.

Is that it there by the 133 plate?

How much length does it add to the 9th?

I guess it would desecrate the Old to put in a couple more centerline bunkers on #9 to challenge the tee shot, but it certainly seems preferable to building yet another back tee.  That is without question the weakest hole on the course, some toughening would affect every day play as well as every 5 year Opens.

Is that thought too heretical?

[Ronald Montesano]

Brett,

I'm presently channeling Robert Trent Jones, Sr. and he wants you to know that the new tee is not long enough.  Add another 75 yards to it and then he'll roll back over in his grave.

[Brett Hochstein]

Ronald,

I am sure he is.  Maybe he would suggest reconfiguring the green complex to make the Road Bunker more gently and 'naturally' abut it.

You still have to consider that this is perhaps the most strategic hole on the course and that it hasn't been changed (besides stupid fairway tightening) since 1900 while every other hole has.

Seeing the pros sticking wedges into the green during the Dunhill was enough for me.  Blame the ball. I do. But it is what it is, and I want the Road Hole to play like the Road Hole in 2010.

[Tom_Doak]

Perhaps a ghost train will come along and take out everyone involved.

[Niall C]

Gentlemen,

A couple of thoughts;

Who exactly determined that this work should be done ? The reason I ask is that as far as I am aware it is the Links Trust who look after the courses. I don't doubt that the R&A had a say but I wonder who came up with the idea who made the final decision. Is it fair to place all the blame/glory with the R&A ?

Secondly, I don't particularly have a problem with courses receiving a nip and tuck as many of our classic courses have evolved rather than simply been built as a design for all time. It also occurs to me that putting in back tees might actually be good for the ordinary golfer teeing it up at the Old Course. I've occasionally read criticism that very often all you can play is the forward tees which I presumed was partly because the back tees were being saved for medals/championships. Additional tees might help spread the wear and tear and allow more back tees to come into play for every day play.

Niall   

[Melvyn Morrow]

Niall

Coming up to The Open the R&A start tinkering with the courses instead of doing something about the bloody ball and taking charge of the game – which is meant to be their responsibility.

It seems to me that they will go to any lengths to avoid making a decision regards technology and ball travel. They are happy to make changer to great courses for a hand full of golfers once every few years instead of dealing with the real problem. That is totally down to the R&A who seek and chase the money and it is my sincere belief that they do not care for the real game of golf.

There is nothing wrong in making the wrong decision as long as you realise it and put your hand up for it them. Correct your error(s) and move on. However, to hide behind indecision is not the way to go about things if you are the Governing Body.

I fear that if they don’t take control soon they will be challenged as the Governing Body and quite rightly so IMHO.

As for the Links Trust, I have far more faith in them (all thought we will not mention the Castle Course) than I have in the R&A.

Why will the R&A not try tinkering with controlling the use of technology in golf rather than keep putting money before the game?

Please guys lets not forget that most if not all courses are open for nearly 365 days a year and not just for the privileged few. Let’s start thinking out of the box and consider the majority of golfers first, after all are not the top golfers just highly paid entertainers for our pleasure.

Melvyn 

[JC Jones]

I find the tee to be strangely geometric.  It is completely flat with a triangular build up.  Looking at the tee in front of it, which has softer, rounder edges, Im curious as to why hard, triangular edges were chosen.

[Brett Hochstein]

JC,

That is largely a product of the way the sod has been laid.  The tee is more rounded in reality than what is portrayed in photos.  Also, the other tee ties into sweeping contours, whereas this one ties into the flat driving range.  I think the shaping is the same as any other new tee construction today.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Brett (and/or anyone),

Help me out with this one:

How many of the recently added Open tees at the Old Course, including this new one at the Road Hole, are out-of-bounds? (New tees at #2 and #14 are "technically" out-of-bounds as well, I believe).

If an Open contestant plays a shot at the 16th onto this new tee at the Road Hole is the ball out-of-bounds? If so, it's a really bizarre situation... You're out-of-bounds at the 16th then driving from this same position at the Road Hole!?!

Is this correct?

[Jon Wiggett]

Jeff,

there are several examples here in Britain that I have come across of tees being outside the bounds of the course. York Golf Club (Strensall) used to have two such holes (2 & 11) both par 3's where you played back over the boundry fence to the green. The second tee was in the an army training ground and the one time I played there I almost had a heart attack when after being on the tee waiting for over 5 minutes for the group in front to clear the green we heard a whistle being blown and 8 soldiers suddenly appeared out of the grass only 10 feet from me.

Anybody in the York area could do worse than play this course which offers a solid and enjoyable challenge the equal of if not better than Fulford.

[Dale Jackson]

Jeff, land is either in bounds or out of bounds, it cannot be both.  With the new tee on 17 it will be in bounds for all play.

I believe Royal Dublin has a similar situation on one of the holes on the back 9, perhaps 13 or 14?

[Jon Wiggett]

Dale,

I don't think you are correct in your statement "land is either in bounds or out of bounds, it cannot be both.  With the new tee on 17 it will be in bounds for all play". There unfortunately many examples of parts of a golf course that is out of bounds from one fairway but not from another.

[Mark Chaplin]

Melvyn - I take it you are still waiting for your R&A invite? You trust the Links Trust who "own" the course and could veto any change but of course it is they who make the serious money from the Open at St. Andrews day in day out. The people who can really push for a compo ball in the Masters committee who run a private invitation only event.

I know a good number of R&A people including one or two who have served on committee and find them to be decent golfers with a deep respect for the game.

Maybe we should roll back maintenance and let the sheep cut the greens, no one could complain as it's how it used to be done.

[Scott Macpherson]

Brett (and/or anyone),

Help me out with this one:

How many of the recently added Open tees at the Old Course, including this new one at the Road Hole, are out-of-bounds? (New tees at #2 and #14 are "technically" out-of-bounds as well, I believe).

If an Open contestant plays a shot at the 16th onto this new tee at the Road Hole is the ball out-of-bounds? If so, it's a really bizarre situation... You're out-of-bounds at the 16th then driving from this same position at the Road Hole!?!

Is this correct?

Jeff,

I think the The R&A Championship Committee are responsible for the course for the Open Championship and I think the O.B. lines that are in use for regular play are different to those used for the Open, and if I recall correctly both the 2nd and 14th tees were in-play in 2005. I suspect that the O.B. line on the 16th will run down the length of the 16th hole (parallel to the road) then turn back on itself and incorporate the new 17th tee.

There is usually a big grandstand down there so that will have to incorporate the new tee.

I did write a book on all this stuff 2 years ago (The Evolution of the Old Course) and it has all the details/plans etc if you want more details.


scott

PS- The 13th tee was also on the Eden course, but not O.B. either.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Your explanation makes sense, Scott. Thanks.

I guess this relative adjustment to the OB line adjacent to #16 green also brings the road there into play! (Cool.)

[Mac Plumart]

Scott...

Can I buy your book on Amazon or do I go directly through you?

In prep for my trip to St. Andrews, this looks perfect.

Mac

[Melvyn Morrow]

Mark

With all due respect you do not know or understand my feeling toward the R&A. It is not just based upon The Open or lack of being seen to Govern. It goes way deeper and it covers far more, all of which they have progressively failed to live up to or honour. I only judge them by their own lack of performance and apparent respect for the game or its history.

I too know Members of the R&A and have Uncles who have been Members, and I agree that there are many who have the skill to do much better. Alas they are not in charge.

As for an invitation, are you kidding, I would only attend when those in power stop speaking with forked tongues. Perhaps they should get their feet firmly on the ground and listen to the golfing public and clubs rather than the odd Prince.

As for your comment re maintenance, I would have given you more credit than to come up with that statement. Its way beneath you IMHO. 

The Links is public property and the Links Trust run it due to an Act of Parliament . Money raised should be spent on the links and golf. I do not believe they have authority to issue grants outside their remit.

But then thats only my opinion

Melvyn

[Dale Jackson]

Dale,

I don't think you are correct in your statement "land is either in bounds or out of bounds, it cannot be both.  With the new tee on 17 it will be in bounds for all play". There unfortunately many examples of parts of a golf course that is out of bounds from one fairway but not from another.

Of course you are correct!  A lesson to self, do not post while rushing out the door to play golf.  It is up to the Committee to decide on the status of the tee, they could mark it to be in play for 16.  Given its position I doubt they will.

[Jud_T]

Mac,
I love your enthusiasm.  I hope it's never dampened by all these jaded characters or the difficult journey of the game itself.

[David Lott]

Remember, the principal atrocity here is the hotel, not the lengthening of the hole.

[Anthony Gray]

Dale,

I don't think you are correct in your statement "land is either in bounds or out of bounds, it cannot be both.  With the new tee on 17 it will be in bounds for all play". There unfortunately many examples of parts of a golf course that is out of bounds from one fairway but not from another.

  So if a player hits his tee ball over the fence on 16, is it OB?

  Anthony