New South Wales - routing, pictures and opinion from Norvegia

[Kevin Pallier]

Hole 7 - Par 4 - 376 m

This hole turns back towards the ridge/Hill and the tee shot feels quite tight as the hole is placed in a small valley.  The tee shot must be precise in the middle or to the right of centre if not you will be blocked by a protruding mound with bushes and trees on top.<snip> A relatively nice hole but not a special hole that anyone would remember.

Brian

I disagree.

#7 and #5 play in the exact opposite direction so as one becomes easier on the wind the other becomes much harder.

#7 also has one of the best greens on the course - with so much internal movement. There is a false front / back right step / back left step / a tier plus a little knob front left. Get above the hole and a fast putt awaits.  One can try also try and move the ball off the left side ridge if they can execute such a shot.

It's one of my favourite on the course.

[Brian Walshe]

Emil,

There is no real strategy, but not every good hole needs to have a special "strategy". A long, straight tee shot leaves with an easier approach.

Isn't that the case with a lot of holes at NSW?  Pretty much a lack of strategy other than find the middle of the fairway?

[Andrew Summerell]

Regarding the 7th, I have always found the left side of the fairway near the hollows (grass bunkers, for want of a better term) to be the best side to approach from. It allows a choice of approaches to most pin positions.

[Emil Weber]

Emil,

There is no real strategy, but not every good hole needs to have a special "strategy". A long, straight tee shot leaves with an easier approach.

Isn't that the case with a lot of holes at NSW?  Pretty much a lack of strategy other than find the middle of the fairway?

That's true, but 7 is still a good hole. NSW is definitely more penal than strategic, but it's a fun course and ultimately that's what its about, for me.

[Brian Phillips]

Emil,

There is no real strategy, but not every good hole needs to have a special "strategy". A long, straight tee shot leaves with an easier approach.

Isn't that the case with a lot of holes at NSW?  Pretty much a lack of strategy other than find the middle of the fairway?

Walshy,

You took the words right out of my mouth!  The course is very penal either side of the fairway and many of the greens.

[Ian Andrew]

My favourite hole on the entire course was the 7th. It's one of the rarest birds of all, a great uphill hole used to route your way out of a desirable opportunity. The tee shot from the upper back tee sets up a hell of a lot better than the lower one. The fairway is bowled shaped, reasonably wide and fairly straight forward unless you’re really aggressive with your line. The green is “fantastic” and the pin position does have an impact on where you need to play in from. I don’t see this hole as penal at all, particularly since one of our players played three comfortable irons (wind was an issue for us getting home in two) and made the putt for par. There’s lots of room for alternative play outside the neck in the landing zone.

You guys can whine about the blindness of the 8th all day, but it’s going to take an act of god to stymie your next shots since there are only a couple of small bushes in play and there’s no trees for a long distance. The green site is a great one and that to me always justifies a blind shot before. Once again two of us that laid back conservatively on both shots were rewarded with position. The players in our group who were aggressive found the bunkering which was nasty. You all must admit, this is a stellar green site.

The 9th is not the least bit blind, it simply slides away to the right and asks you to play aggressively or well right for position. It may not look comfortable to the eye, but it’s not actually a hard shot. Once again the player in our group who played the prudent shorter shot played an easy and comfortable approach in. The green site is beauty with that super deep pot bunker on the left front complicating all but a very well placed shot up the right. One of the most endearing parts about the green is how you can hit short and run a shot into the green. Something those ladies, whom you worried about, would take full advantage of.

So looking at these three holes I see three really great greens that require some thought and care with your approach shots. I’ll concede you the one awkward blind shot over the dune. I still liked all three even if others did not.

[Brian Walshe]

Ian,

I agree with your comments re 9.  I like the green and yes, you need to be right.  Why then have the new waste area on the left?  I thought the hole was much better before the waste area was put in.  Grab driver and go at it and you end up left with a tough approach.  All the waste area does is penalise an already poot tee shot.

[Scott Warren]

Brian W, that may be so (I've not yet played the hole with the waste area), but I still think missing your drive right would be worse than missing it left.

There are quite a few holes at NSW where you can point to a hazard on the "safe" side of the fairway, but in most instances I can think of there is worse trouble lurking on the side that offers the best angle in.

[Kevin Pallier]

Brian

Do you not think the waste area was put in to try and force driver out of the hand of people with those coming up the now cleared 10th hole ?

[Brian Phillips]

You guys can whine about the blindness of the 8th all day, but it’s going to take an act of god to stymie your next shots since there are only a couple of small bushes in play and there’s no trees for a long distance. The green site is a great one and that to me always justifies a blind shot before. Once again two of us that laid back conservatively on both shots were rewarded with position. The players in our group who were aggressive found the bunkering which was nasty. You all must admit, this is a stellar green site.

Well God must have hated me on that day as I was stymied behind one of the trees on the left and had to chip out.  I agree the green is superb and the bunkering is shaped perfectly.

[Scott Warren]

Which side of the fairway were you on, Brian?

[Sean_A]

I don't know about how the course plays, but aestethically NSW doesn't look good.  The course seems to fight natural flow lines and many of the elements seem to stand out as awkward.  There is definitely something amiss with this course, but its hard to put a finger on it.

Ciao

[Brian Phillips]

Which side of the fairway were you on, Brian?

Scott,

I creamed a drive up the middle of the fairway from the tee and then tried to hit a punchy rescue but pulled it left and was stuck right up against one of the trees that are on the left of your aerial photo.

[Brian Phillips]

The 9th is not the least bit blind, it simply slides away to the right and asks you to play aggressively or well right for position. It may not look comfortable to the eye, but it’s not actually a hard shot.

Ian,

This photo was taken as far up as I could on the tee.  I can't see much of the fairway at all if any to be honest.  That to me is a definition of "blind".  If the photo was taken at the back of the tee you would not see any of the fairway.

[Andrew Summerell]

I'm sorry Brian. I can see a fair bit of the fairway in that photo & the back tee is higher than the front tee.

[Brian Phillips]

I'm sorry Brian. I can see a fair bit of the fairway in that photo & the back tee is higher than the front tee.

Okay, let me re-word it. How much of your landing area can you see?  Who uses the back tee?

[Andrew Summerell]

I'm sorry Brian. I can see a fair bit of the fairway in that photo & the back tee is higher than the front tee.

Okay, let me re-word it. How much of your landing area can you see?  Who uses the back tee?

I can see enough landing area for me.

In all my rounds at NSW I have never hit off the front tees. The back tees (or near enough to the back tees) on all the holes are used for most members comps which are every Wed, Sat & Sun. The back tee on the 3rd is only used for championship events; the island tee on #6 is used most Saturdays, but is used on a rotational basis for Wednesday comps; the 14th rotates its tees, but mostly uses the back tee in comps. I think you guys were only playing off front tees because of the up coming Aus open.

[Scott Warren]

Andrew,
The tees they played from are used in competitions... by the lady members

Which side of the fairway were you on, Brian?

Scott,

I creamed a drive up the middle of the fairway from the tee and then tried to hit a punchy rescue but pulled it left and was stuck right up against one of the trees that are on the left of your aerial photo.

Given that the left hand side provides a much better angle in than the right - or even the middle of the fairway - I think it's fair that those bushes sit in the left rough as just a gentle hazard for the golfer looking to get the best angle for his approach.

And to be fair, there is plenty of room behind them and in front of them for a second shot to be played where they will not be a hindrance.

Features that are blind the first time you play a hole can annoy the first-time player because there is no way you could have known they were there, they might even seem "unfair", but does that make them inherently bad? I don't think so.

If the bushes weren't there, I'm sure the knockers would point out you can just shovel your second over to the left for the best line into the green without any risk.

This pic gives a bit better idea of the space in the 2nd shot landing area:

[Neil_Crafter]

Scott
I have to agree with Brian from the snowy lands of Norwegia that those few bushes in the left rough are out of place and very arbitrary hazards. Personally I'd give them a very low horizontal pruning.......

[Brian Phillips]

Scott,

I agree that if the trees and bushes were removed it would make the hole very much easier.  Why not remove the trees and bushes on the left (leaving the bushes slightly further up on the right) and create a cluster of fairway pot bunkers. 

If designed well they could be shallow or wide enough for a good shot from the sand to still reach the green.  This would highlight the good player that got himself into trouble but was then good enough to recover with a tremendous shot from a bunker.

Many of the Scottish links courses have blind holes but the big difference I find between NSW and those in Scotland is that often (I am not saying always) the landing area is very wide and not strewn with penal hazards that punish a slightly poor shot.  Your picture shows how close those clump of trees are just off the fairway and I find that unfair and poor design.

Just to let you know that although I find the 7th hole boring and just a transport hole to get you back to the top that I actually parred it with a driver, 3 wood (thus reaching it in two) and just missed my birdie putt to tap in for par.  I like the green but would not go as far as Ian to say that it was 'fantastic' as I don't think stepped greens are fantastic, never have and never will.  It is certainly one of the best greens on the course but that does not really say much as the greens at NSW are quite boring due to the windy nature of the site.

[Brian Walshe]

Kevin,

The waste area on 9 needs to be looked at in conjunction with the other new waste areas, all of which appear to have been added to "tighten up" the landing area for tee shots.  To that end I think it's fairly safe to say they are there to penailise.  If safety on 10 was an issue surely a bunker that stopped the ball would work better?  Why do you think they added the waste areas?

Scott,

There is a football field on the right from 200m to 255m out.  Everything as you are aware feeds left.  From where the waste area is now you have to play over the left bunker, with the green sloping away from you off the lip to the narrow axis of the green.  Let people hit it there, encourage them to.  The best shot is from the right and is wide open.  Sounds like a penal setup to me.

[Michael Taylor]

Bump. Brian, I'm looking forward to you continuing this as I'd like to get involved in the discussion aswell.

Pup

[Ian Andrew]

Brian,

I too would like to see the discussion continue since I think the back nine may lead to more debate than the front.

[Anthony Butler]

One point to make about the 9th. The further right you go on the fairway, and have an approach shot straight down the green, the more likely it is that the hill coming down from the second green will encroach on your view of the green. You can be on the right hand side of the fairway and still have a blind approach shot.

That to me seems to be a strategic option-but one that will only become apparent after you have played the hole a couple of times.

The one comment I would make about this thread is that like just about everyone else who plays the course for the first few times, Brian has focused on the obvious physical attractions of the site and the penal nature of many holes.

The strategy of playing each hole reveals itself only over time and is never cut and dried because that strategy must adapt to the particular weather conditions that face you on each tee. Until you play the course in a range of wind directions, it's really hard to comment on the strategic intent of each hole.

[Brian Phillips]

The strategy of playing each hole reveals itself only over time and is never cut and dried because that strategy must adapt to the particular weather conditions that face you on each tee. Until you play the course in a range of wind directions, it's really hard to comment on the strategic intent of each hole.
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There is not enough width on the course for that to be true in my opinion.  Nearly all of the greens have little or no internal strategy to have any impact on whatever angle you come from.

There is no left or right side of a fairway that really helps on any hole or very few of them anyway.

We have gone through nine holes so far and hardly anyone has managed to explain strategy on the holes to me.  I am willing to learn as I did about hole 8 but so far I am not convinced by anything that has been said to change my opinion of the course.

I keep meaning to upload the rest of the holes (and will) but keep struggling with time.