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Andrew Summerell

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Re: New South Wales - routing, pictures and opinion from Norvegia
« Reply #100 on: January 20, 2010, 04:33:16 PM »
There is not enough width on the course for that to be true in my opinion.  Nearly all of the greens have little or no internal strategy to have any impact on whatever angle you come from.

There is no left or right side of a fairway that really helps on any hole or very few of them anyway.

We have gone through nine holes so far and hardly anyone has managed to explain strategy on the holes to me.  I am willing to learn as I did about hole 8 but so far I am not convinced by anything that has been said to change my opinion of the course.

Brian, I understand that NSW was your least liked course on your Australian trip, but strategy & width have been spoken about on this thread already.

1st – The best approach angle is from the left, although the fairway bunkers are on the right. This was a hole you said you liked, although I think it is strategically the poorest hole on the course. To lay up from the fairway bunkers you have 40y width.

3rd – It’s 40y width at the lay up point & decreases slightly the closer to the green you drive.

4th – A 250y drive gives you 33y width. Taking on the fairway bunker gives you only 23y width. There is a big advantage to being near the fairway bunker, because it gives you vision of the green. The more conservative drive leaves you with a blind approach.

5th – The 5th is best approached from as far left as you can go, whether you are hitting the green in 2 or 3. Approaching from the right leaves you taking on the front right greenside bunker.

7th – Best approached from the left hand side near the two grass bunkers. Lay up width is 35y, but it is only 24y at the grass bunkers. It’s the golfer’s choice.

8th – A 250y drive from the men’s tees has 32y width. As discussed before, the green is best approached from the left where you again has 32y of fairway.

9th – 35y of width up until the dune.

I know 30 to 35 yards is not the widest fairway in the world, but it’s as wide as a majority of the Top 100 courses in the world. I really don’t think that width is the problem.

NSW is not the most strategic course, but there is still quite a bit of strategy there, in width & length. There are a lot of options for golfers of all abilities.

Of course, as Tim Liddy said, “The aesthetics are of a municipal golf course. Front nine has a view of some goofy rescue building, ugly scrubs encroaching on many of the fairways and ugly bunkering.” I dare say this is the real problem.

Anthony Butler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New South Wales - routing, pictures and opinion from Norvegia
« Reply #101 on: January 20, 2010, 08:28:41 PM »
The strategy of playing each hole reveals itself only over time and is never cut and dried because that strategy must adapt to the particular weather conditions that face you on each tee. Until you play the course in a range of wind directions, it's really hard to comment on the strategic intent of each hole.
There is not enough width on the course for that to be true in my opinion.  Nearly all of the greens have little or no internal strategy to have any impact on whatever angle you come from.

There is no left or right side of a fairway that really helps on any hole or very few of them anyway.

We have gone through nine holes so far and hardly anyone has managed to explain strategy on the holes to me.  I am willing to learn as I did about hole 8 but so far I am not convinced by anything that has been said to change my opinion of the course.

I keep meaning to upload the rest of the holes (and will) but keep struggling with time.

Not sure how to respond to this Brian, beyond the thought that when you're having your pants pulled down, getting spanked on the behind, and generally feeling like someone or something is about to make you its girlfriend, it's kind of hard to appreciate the strategy behind it all.

We've all been there, on a golf course or not, but despite the many pieces of input, you still refuse to believe there is strategy on the course. From my 300+ rounds out there, I would say the only holes that don't offer strategic choices are the 2nd (esp into the wind), and the 15th where your only choice off the tee is to nut it up the middle. If you're going downwind, you can decide whether or not driver will put you too far down the fairway and block your view to the green.

I can't really comment on 18, since I have only played it once in its new configuration. Downwind I put a driver and 5 wood in the front bunker (and failed to get up and down). But the thing I like about the hole from further back in the fairway, is the closer you aimed to the 18th pin which was mostly on the right of the green, you had an easier putt (while risking a very tricky pitch if you failed to pull it off).

arb:
Next!

Michael Taylor

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New South Wales - routing, pictures and opinion from Norvegia
« Reply #102 on: February 05, 2010, 01:31:29 AM »
Bump.

Pwease Brian?

 ;D

Pup

Michael Taylor

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New South Wales - routing, pictures and opinion from Norvegia
« Reply #103 on: March 12, 2010, 08:42:41 AM »
Brian,

I would, and I'm sure others would as well, appreciate this thread to be completed. I'm very interested on hearing your thoughts about my course. For better or worse.  ;)

Pup

Anthony Butler

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Re: New South Wales - routing, pictures and opinion from Norvegia
« Reply #104 on: March 12, 2010, 02:46:38 PM »
More Strategery.

Next!

Michael Taylor

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Re: New South Wales - routing, pictures and opinion from Norvegia
« Reply #105 on: March 12, 2010, 06:07:58 PM »
I meant for each individual hole.

Michael Taylor

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New South Wales - routing, pictures and opinion from Norvegia
« Reply #106 on: March 24, 2010, 04:55:57 AM »
This going to be completed Brian?

Kevin Pallier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New South Wales - routing, pictures and opinion from Norvegia
« Reply #107 on: March 24, 2010, 08:06:01 AM »
Michael

I think Brian may have given up - on both fronts - at the turn...... :D

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New South Wales - routing, pictures and opinion from Norvegia
« Reply #108 on: March 24, 2010, 11:34:41 AM »
KP,

Perhaps Brian headed in after the front? That would explain the fact he doesn't see it as world top 40: He thought it was a nine-holer! ;D

(tongue firmly in cheek)

Andrew Summerell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New South Wales - routing, pictures and opinion from Norvegia
« Reply #109 on: April 10, 2010, 07:49:13 AM »
Pup,

How is the work on the greens going at NSW?

Michael Taylor

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New South Wales - routing, pictures and opinion from Norvegia
« Reply #110 on: April 17, 2010, 09:01:34 AM »
Sorry to take awhile to respond Andrew.

The greens aren't going well at the moment. We have been using up to 8 temporaries for the last 5-6 weeks, and it's looking at being another 2-3 weeks for them to be back to normal. They have been reseeded with Mackenzie Bent.

Pup

Andrew Summerell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New South Wales - routing, pictures and opinion from Norvegia
« Reply #111 on: April 22, 2010, 06:46:06 AM »
Pup,

Are you playing the 19th hole? It's a fun little hole.

I wonder if  Brian  is going to review that as well?

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New South Wales - routing, pictures and opinion from Norvegia
« Reply #112 on: April 22, 2010, 06:57:14 AM »
I hear the 2nd is out of play currently with the 19th being used.

Not too many people would be sorry to see that become permanent. Cracking little hole.

Andrew Summerell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New South Wales - routing, pictures and opinion from Norvegia
« Reply #113 on: April 22, 2010, 07:02:01 AM »
I hear the 2nd is out of play currently with the 19th being used.

Not too many people would be sorry to see that become permanent. Cracking little hole.

Thanks Scott.




Brian,

Did you guys get to see (or play) the 19th hole at NSW?

Michael Taylor

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New South Wales - routing, pictures and opinion from Norvegia
« Reply #114 on: April 22, 2010, 09:48:04 AM »
Yes the 19th hole is in play, an uphill par 3 of 90 metres with a WICKED green.

In fact, I'll post up some photos of it tomorrow (I think I took some photos of it?). :)

Andrew, I've only played it twice, but do you know if they ever place the pin up the top left section?

Pup


Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New South Wales - routing, pictures and opinion from Norvegia
« Reply #115 on: April 22, 2010, 10:10:47 AM »
Michael,

I have played it back left. Hit my tee shot onto the back fringe and nearly put my putt off the front of the green. It's lightening from back there!

Terry Thornton

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New South Wales - routing, pictures and opinion from Norvegia
« Reply #116 on: April 22, 2010, 06:21:47 PM »
Pup,

yes the left hand side is used. The lack of useable pin positions is a limiting factor for the regular usage of the hole and why #2 remains a better option imho.

Michael Taylor

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New South Wales - routing, pictures and opinion from Norvegia
« Reply #117 on: April 23, 2010, 02:58:02 AM »
Thanks Terry.

I reckon they could turn the backstop on the RHS into a tier, and push it even further back. That would create an even more interesting green!

But I really don't 'love' the 2nd hole. It's the worst on the course IMO. What do you (everyone) think they could do to improve it?

Pup

Michael Taylor

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New South Wales - routing, pictures and opinion from Norvegia
« Reply #118 on: April 23, 2010, 08:50:24 AM »
Greens will all be back in play from the 1st of May. And will be back to 'normal' 9-10 stintmeter pace 2-3 weeks after that.

Pup

Terry Thornton

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Re: New South Wales - routing, pictures and opinion from Norvegia
« Reply #119 on: April 23, 2010, 12:06:49 PM »
Pup,

I don't mind #2, if I manage to stick the green I know I've played a well struck shot. The main criticism I hear of the hole is the green being ill-shaped for the length of the tee shot, namely too shallow. Without moving a lot of dirt there is little that can be done to overcome this. If dirt was to be moved I'd like to see the left and right hand sides of the green extended towards the tee so you'd have a green that was sort of horseshoe shaped, leaving the existing 'valley of sin' more or less as is. Extend the green maybe a metre back as well.

The clearing of the bushes/shrubs etc from the carry area was a great improvement and hopefully is being maintained. I'd also like the red tee being used for members ocassionally for variety.

Edit: If you were going all out then drop the green level by about 2 metres and design a completely new one.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2010, 01:10:03 PM by Terry Thornton »

Andrew Summerell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New South Wales - routing, pictures and opinion from Norvegia
« Reply #120 on: April 23, 2010, 08:26:18 PM »
Edit: If you were going all out then drop the green level by about 2 metres and design a completely new one.

I think that would work well.

Andrew Summerell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New South Wales - routing, pictures and opinion from Norvegia
« Reply #121 on: April 27, 2010, 12:53:17 AM »
Pup,

Have you got any photos of the 19th that you could post?

Michael Taylor

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New South Wales - routing, pictures and opinion from Norvegia
« Reply #122 on: April 27, 2010, 12:56:05 AM »
Ah yes I took some yesterday.

I'll put them up in the next 30 minutes Andrew.

Pup

Michael Taylor

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New South Wales - routing, pictures and opinion from Norvegia
« Reply #123 on: April 27, 2010, 09:51:06 AM »
And in Brian's absence, I will skip to the 19th hole for him. :)

19th hole - 98m

The 19th hole is our temporary hole, put in play when there is another hole fully out of play.

It is a mere pitch over a chasm filled with scrub, but the green is where all the danger is. There are two distinct sections to the green, the flattish left side, and the lower right hand side. The left hand side of the green is higher than the right, and it is only about 25 feet wide. It then falls away sharply to the right which forms the lower right hand portion. And towards the back portion of the RHS, there is a very very steep back stop. Hitting a full wedge into the backstop on the right can easily make it spin back into the scrub filled chasm.

There are two relatively benign bunkers to the right of the green, and short left of the green are two very fearsome looking bunkers, that are to be avoided at all costs.

Also to the left of the green by about 3m (10 feet) is more shrub, so don't go there either.

Tee shot



Flatter RHS Portion



Backstop



Bunkers to the right hand side.



The crap short of the green (photo doesn't show it, but there is a very steep fall to the left).



Left hand portion (you can see the fall away to the right side here).



Fearsome bunker "number 1".



"Number two" (and my good looking shadow).



And from in the bunker.



Looking back and the nice views.





There you go Andrew. :)

Andrew Summerell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New South Wales - routing, pictures and opinion from Norvegia
« Reply #124 on: April 27, 2010, 04:51:19 PM »
Thanks mate, it's a fun little hole.