Tom,
You asked, "Are the two - grass expert and golf architect - mutually exclusive? Obviously not, there are numerous examples of greenkeeper/golf architects and grass expert/golf architects...not to mention construction man/golf architects, like Raynor. What point are you trying to make?"
I would think it is fairly obvious. First, that I believe your characterization of White as a well-established golf course architect in 1914-15 and recogniozed as more experienced than Raynor is incorrect. For exaample, in your post #123 you stated, "I think White was more active than what is generally known, starting with his last years at Ravisloe..."
Well what did he actually do during his "last years at Ravisloe?" He certainly didn't do any major design work and for proof of that we have HIS OWN WORDS. In the January 1913 article from the American Golfer (shown above in my reply #201) White, himself, after identifying himself as the GREENKEEPER at Ravisloe wrote, "The Ravisloe course was originally laid out in 1901 and, except for some changes made in 1902, the locations of the greens remain practically the same..."
Now I don't know how you measure time, but late that fall he would be gone from Ravisloe and employed at Shawnee. This would certainly qualify as being in "his last years at ravisloe" and yet he states that almost nothing of consequence had been done to the green complexes since 1902! So, exactly what was he more active in from a golf course design standpoint that he did in the next 8-9 months? And if he did anything major, how & why would he leave Ravisloe in October-November?
Secondly, he himself viewed himself as a GREENKEEPER, as did Tilly, and MOST IMPORTANTLY, those who hired him at North Shore!
From the North Shore Board meetings notes, "On November 12, 1914, the Club hired Robert White, at $1200.00 per year, to begin on December 1, 1914, with an option to terminate after 6 months with 30 days notice. His duties were: To take charge of the present golf course and to superintend the building of a new one, if undertaken, and to perform such other duties as the Board may direct..."
Notice that he was NOT hired to design the course! Seth Raynor was. Again, we go to the board minutes from the week BEFORE White was hired. "On November 5, 1914, the Club authorized the sum of $400.00 to hire Seth Raynor in an advisory capacity for possible improvement of the existing course on the property."
After this, once again as found in the board minutes, "On January 26, 1915, the Club approved plans by Raynor for a new golf course with $37,500.00 to be expended under supervision of the Greens Committee, subject to the approval of the President. Raynor was to be paid a fee of $1800.00 for carrying out this work." Plans by RAYNOR. No mention of White or a collaboration, but pretty definitive that it was his plans and design they approved and now agreed to pay him an additional $1,800 for!
Finally, and once again from the board minutes, "On March 12, 1916, at the Club’s Annual Meeting, the President, Henry Calman, noted that the links were now complete with the exception of some bunkers and traps and that the course should be opening by Decoration Day. He said the results are the product of the deep thought of Robert White, our greens expert, Seth Raynor, the leading golf architect in the United States and Charles B. Macdonald, the recognized authority among amateurs on golf course construction and the well considered work of our Greens Committee."
Notice how differently Raynor and White were viewed. Raynor, the LEADING GOLF ARCHITECT in the U.S., with White being OUR GREENS EXPERT.
Raynor deigned the course. White worked with him in the construction of it and White especially and specifically worked on the turf of the putting surfaces, which is what he was hired to do, possibly even at the recommendation of Raynor (pure speculation).
Yes, White would go on to become a full-fledged architect in his own right, but he obviously wasn't sure of the directions that he was going and what he should be doing in 1914-15. Otherwise he would have been actively advertising himself as an architect and not taking full-time work on as a professional and greenkeeper.
You've asked several times for people to "detail White's career" especially during this time period. I think I laid out pretty well exactly what he was doing during the time period prior to his coming to North Shore. I did make one mistake though, and that is when I stated in answer to your question as to when exactly he left Shawnee that I mentioned late in the fall of 1915. This was incorrect and nothing more than a typo as he left Shawnee sometime in the late fall of 1914. As I stated, I will get you the exact date next month (if Shawnee has it in their files).
What is interesting and the reason i bring it up is your statement, "Phil, From what I've read its unclear if White was hired as greenkeeper at Shawnee or simply hired to redesign the golf course. [He wasn't, see my earlier comments on this] A few months later he was laying out a new course on Long Island, before eventually being hired by North Shore."
This statement is not quite accurate. The article from Golf magazine that you posted announcing this work was the December 1914 issue. It stated that White had been "working on plans for several weeks" at that time. That means that he had begun his design work sometime in early to mid-Novemebr. As he was hired by the club on Novemebr 14, 1914, and expected to begin work on Decemebr 1st, it would appear that he did this work at the same time as he began work at North Shore.
Now North Shore must have been aware of this design work that he was doing. so I ask you, why did they hire Raynor and specifically as the architect for the new course and specifically state such and NOT state anything even remotely hinting at White as their designing architect?